Orbi vs Nest vs Eero Pro - Needing assistance on purchase

[lardo5150]

I currently have a Nighthawk X4S router, and an Asus RT-ac68u as another access point.
I have a two story home, about 3200sft, brick.
My wifi outside is awful, inside and around the house I am getting constant drops.
I don't want to get into it, but I just want to move onto something else. Sick of this.
I have done every config possible and am running Merlin.

I am wanting to go mesh.

My goals are:
1. Reliability - sick of drops and losing connection
2. Coverage
3. performance.

I have zero interest in any advanced routing as I dont do any NATing or stuff like that.
I have 1g ATT internet. We both work from home now, stream, kids play nintendo switch, 3 Nest Cameras, Pool Automation, etc.

I am in the Google ecosystem, so I was considering Nest Wifi, but the stuff I keep reading is its not that great compared to the older model. And I am just changing out wifi, so I dont need this to be Google.

I have read Orbi RBK50 is crazy powerful, but suffers from disconnects and drops and netgear issues.
A guy in another thread here mentioned he has the RBK752 and it is super nice.

My boss just got three pack of the Eero Pro, and says it is crazy awesome with coverage and performance, but I am reading that performance is not that great?

anyone have any of these? Any suggestions?

 

[Trip]

First off, wired backbone. You want as much of it around the house as possible for backhaul. Do you have ethernet throughout the house? If not, how about TV coaxial cable drops (example), for use with MoCa adapters (explanation)? If yes, you're primed for solid wifi, almost regardless of what you use.

If you can hard-wire most or almost all nodes, and want to just K.I.S.S., simply go with a whole-house mesh product that supports wired backhaul. Almost any will do, be it dual-band or tri-band (Orbi, Eero, Deco, Velop, etc.). Nest is OK, but several are better.

If you want the ultimate in performance and reliability, though, and can hard-wire all nodes, then you'll also want to consider wire-only access points, such as TP-Link Omada, in combination with a wired router. It is a much more technical setup for a network novice, but superior to whole-house consumer mesh because purpose-built APs allow for different fronthaul (endpoint) channels per AP, delivering higher overall throughout the house at any given time, way less co-interference between APs as a result, plus usually way more seamless roaming. If all of that sounds nice but is too technical, no worries, you can revert to the whole-house mesh product.

If you can't hard-wire any nodes at all, I'll just save you all the research headaches right now -- go Eero Pro. You won't get anywhere near your gigabit internet connection speeds from wifi with Eero Pro (max from the base unit would probably be ~500Mb/s, max from a 1-hop node probably half that or less), whereas Orbi tri-band or multiple AmpliFi Aliens could get you faster throughput from the satellites, but neither of the latter have the radio optimization intelligence or the QoS of Eero, both of which make a fairly big difference in the "it just works" department, which is first and foremost on your list of priorities.

 

[lardo5150]

My X4s is wired.
The RT I was using as an access point, is upstairs, completely on the other side of the house from the X4S. it is also wired.
So, i do have wired backhaul.
But my range outside to my Nest cameras is garbage, and a lot of my clients (my Lenovo Google display in the kitchen, my work laptop) are constantly getting disconnected.
So I need something better.
Reliable, and Coverage.

I will stay away from Nest.
how is the orbi with reliability? I am finding that the Eero seems reliable with great coverage, but power performance.

 

[Trip]

Good to know on having ethernet backhaul. That opens up a world more possibilities for you.

Orbi is a bit of a mixed bag. The more static the wireless environment and the fewer physical obstacles, the better it tends to do, as it's not very intelligent when it comes to RF auto-adjustment or QoS. Or much else for that matter. It's main strength is its 4x4 backhaul. Amplifi Alien is a bit more of the same, albeit with 8x8 backhaul and a per-unit price that makes my eyes bleed.

Honestly, I would just do a three-pack of Eero dual-band units for $249. Set them up to completely replace what you've got now, with the third unit placed closer to the garage than how your two-node setup is laid out now, and you should be set. If you end up yearning for more router/gateway functionality, just put Eero into bridge mode (effectively turning them into just wireless APs) and put your X4S (flashed with OpenWRT, the Netgear firmware is poor) or AC68U running Merlin back in service as your gateway for whatever features you were missing there. Either way, you win.

 

[Tech Focus]

For my 3800 sqft home, I have owned RBK 50 (personal experience), added wall plug satellite and eventually another full satellite RBS50. The system was really unstable even firmware after firmware. So I got Eero Pro 3 packs (personal experience). They worked fantastic. For 6-7 months I had Eero Pro, I've never had to look and change setting on Eero Pro. These were before I got ethernet backhaul option. Between the two, I'd hands down recommend Eero Pro.

The reason I left Eero Pro was because I got higher speed service from ISP. If you have 1 Gbps service, Eero Pro could be a bottleneck especially if you have 3x3 MIMO client. If you want single device max throughput potential on WiFi, you might need to look alternative. Though practically, difference between 300-400 Mbps and 500-600 Mbps is probably non-existent unless you transfer huge files all the time.

Fortunate or unfortunate, with ethernet backhaul capability at your home, you have way more to choose from. You probably know this already but I believe Mesh Network systems were originally built for wireless backhaul connection those who do not have wired backhaul. If you have ethernet wired connection, it is generally still faster and more stable. But with it, I think technical term changes from mesh to Access Point though consumer mesh system manufacture seem to use term wired backhaul, and it does work well. But if you have wired backhaul, your options are much wider than mesh systems. I originally did not know about this so I kept only searching for Mesh network options and results were always same systems like Velop, Eero, Orbi, AmpliFi, Google (Nest) Wifi etc. Basically, I was missing all the other side of the world. It would be interesting/fun may be daunting to see the other world.

 

[tigerfan_9]

I currently have a Nighthawk X4S router, and an Asus RT-ac68u as another access point.


My boss just got three pack of the Eero Pro, and says it is crazy awesome with coverage and performance, but I am reading that performance is not that great?

anyone have any of these? Any suggestions?

i'd have to second your bosses opinion of the eero pro setup. after a couple things to work out that were not due to the eero pro, the performance has been spectacular. I have the AT&T Fiber 300 and my combo modem/router was giving a measured 370 mbps "speed" but the constant no loads, refreshes, errors made it unbearable. With my eero pro setup (3 nodes with wired backhaul through coax/moca) i get seamless roaming / node switching and near full wifi speeds around the house.

 

[Trip]

Per @Tech Focus and @tigerfan_9's testimonials, you Eero tends to be the choice for all-wireless setups, and even in many cases for hard-wired as well. As I said, since you have wired backhaul, either dual-band Eero or tri-band Eero Pro would work.

 

[lardo5150]

For my 3800 sqft home, I have owned RBK 50 (personal experience), added wall plug satellite and eventually another full satellite RBS50. The system was really unstable even firmware after firmware. So I got Eero Pro 3 packs (personal experience). They worked fantastic. For 6-7 months I had Eero Pro, I've never had to look and change setting on Eero Pro. These were before I got ethernet backhaul option. Between the two, I'd hands down recommend Eero Pro.

The reason I left Eero Pro was because I got higher speed service from ISP. If you have 1 Gbps service, Eero Pro could be a bottleneck especially if you have 3x3 MIMO client. If you want single device max throughput potential on WiFi, you might need to look alternative. Though practically, difference between 300-400 Mbps and 500-600 Mbps is probably non-existent unless you transfer huge files all the time.

Fortunate or unfortunate, with ethernet backhaul capability at your home, you have way more to choose from. You probably know this already but I believe Mesh Network systems were originally built for wireless backhaul connection those who do not have wired backhaul. If you have ethernet wired connection, it is generally still faster and more stable. But with it, I think technical term changes from mesh to Access Point though consumer mesh system manufacture seem to use term wired backhaul, and it does work well. But if you have wired backhaul, your options are much wider than mesh systems. I originally did not know about this so I kept only searching for Mesh network options and results were always same systems like Velop, Eero, Orbi, AmpliFi, Google (Nest) Wifi etc. Basically, I was missing all the other side of the world. It would be interesting/fun may be daunting to see the other world.

Tech Focus, what did you end up with when you switched to 1g service?
i currently have 1G service from ATT.

 

[Tech Focus]

Tech Focus, what did you end up with when you switched to 1g service?
i currently have 1G service from ATT.

I ended up with UniFi myself (my early UniFi review) but I think others can serve well. You basically want 4x4 MU-MIMO, WiFi 5 Wave 2 system. WiFi 6, I personally think is not only too early, but I think it may be underperforming against good WiFi 5 system (my experience 1 & 2).

Basically, I started with one access point (AP) to see if it changes anything compared to my original AiMesh system. So if it didn't work well, I was going to return it. I basically plugged Unifi AP into Asus Ax11000 router as Access point first. It was night and day for my home. But I have just discovered my home has left over Wifi router hiding somewhere (past 3 years...) interfering channel 6 of 2.4 GHz band. So who knows may be if I avoided the channel, AiMesh might have worked better. Though having said this, UniFi still worked well with channel 6.

I tend to get hyped up/addicted to tech. My current addiction is UniFi so I may be biased and who knows how long this going to last. But this is basically Eero's stability with full performance and future scalability. Only part keeps bothering in back of my head is that they don't currently have Wifi 6 AP but at least for my home, UniFi outperformed WiFi 6 system. So I just have to wait until UniFi release Wifi 6 AP and by then hopefully I have more than 1 WiFi 6 client device amongst 50 devices I have. Their system is controller software/unit + AP based so I don't think new AP will make other nodes obsolete/unusable. If you are going with UniFi, I say look at nanoHD and UniFi Dream Machine. Or perhaps you can just have nanoHD first and plug into your existing router and see if it has the performance you need for the area covered. You will need more than one AP for sure. 2 AP covers my home with speedy, stable 2.4GHz band. But if 5 GHz coverage all way I'm sure I will need probably 4+ APs. This was same for Orbi x 3+1, Eero Pro x 3 and AiMesh x 4. I'm pretty sure most specs when they say X sqft coverage, they are really referring/basing on 2.4 GHz band.

Now having said this, I think Nest WiFi AC2200 routers look very attractive and probably will function as good as UniFi. I believe you have to be careful about Nest WiFi point. That is NOT the one you want. Because WiFi point sounds like won't have wired backhaul option, but if you have multiple router units each can act as wired mesh/backhaul i.e. access points. Since it has 4x4 MU-MIMO, I can believe some of online speed #'s for Nest WiFi like 600Mbps on Cnet. The only part I'm not sure though is if their laptop was 2x2 or 3x3 MIMO as their WiFi 6 system looked far superior to WiFi 5 systems, and my MacBook Pro with 3x3 can actually reach 800 Mbps on UniFi WiFi 5 system.

In summary, if you want simple set up, clean look with good value and performance, I think Nest WiFi seems pretty attractive option to me. Just make sure, go with routers not WiFi point. If you go with UniFi, it would costs you more but you don't have to worry about configuration if you don't want to. It's all optional except one setup (40 to 80 MHz channel width).

 

[lardo5150]

Holy cow the unifi is expensive.
Looking into the nano to see how it performs compared to the HD.

 

[Tech Focus]

Holy cow the unifi is expensive.
Looking into the nano to see how it performs compared to the HD.

I replied to other thread, but don't go for HD. It's an overkill. I've also put wrong link for my UniFi review, so I updated it if you want to read it, but it's pretty much what I already said in longer, wordy form.

 

[lardo5150]

How are the speeds compared between the eero pro and nanohd?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[lardo5150]

let me clarify, when I see speeds, if the NanoHD is able to do 300MB, what is the Eero doing? I could not find what its actual speeds are.

 

[Tech Focus]

let me clarify, when I see speeds, if the NanoHD is able to do 300MB, what is the Eero doing? I could not find what its actual speeds are.

I've sold Eero a while back and back when I had them, I only had wireless mesh option + 200-300 internet service in my area. Now I have all wired AP connection, and 1 Gbps download so I cannot do real apple to apple comparison.

Let's make sure we are on the same track. 300Mbps label on nanoHD is max you can get for 2x2 MIMO at 40 MHz. My understanding is this is not going to happen in most places (good article). Plus it usually used when you are in distance. So most of time when I use 2.4 GHz, I get well under 50 Mbps even on UniFi so was on AiMesh. With Eero Pro, hard to cover area in home did have similar number as I recall but didn't explicitly test if it was on 5 GHz at distance vs. 2.4 GHz band connected. But in any event, I cannot imaging Eero does not use 2x2 MIMO on 2.4 GHz band, and therefore offering theoretical 300 Mbps throughput, which again equates to under 100 Mbps in real world.

However, if you are referring to peak performance difference, its 5 GHz band comparison. But even at this, if you only have 2x2 MIMO client, bottle neck will usually be the client device. So Eero should be able to show similar number in theory assuming similar efficiency between UniFi and Eero. If you connect 3x3 MIMO laptop or something, that's when you see difference for a single device max throughput.

But in all honesty, I think the primary reason why I fell in love with UniFi (and retrospectively really liked Eero Pro) is they give REAL world difference in daily internet use. Because they just work and stable. I don't see sudden internet is not connected message. Web page opens instantly. All these should be achievable even with 10 Mbps speed. (4K video stream needs little higher Mbps). But Orbi nor Asus AiMesh just didn't give these flawless experience. I got complaints from family member. In retrospect, it could have been unstable 2.4 GHz band (at least on AiMesh).

So I'd consider Eero Pro and UniFi for their stability: Setup, connect and forget. If you want to see the highest number on speed test (like myself to get fully convinced), UniFi did convince me with testing against my WiFi 6 AiMesh. But I bet there are other WiFi 6 system that can achieve truly high speed test result. For me UniFi hits all the balance so well with future scalability. But if you are not needing much customization/flexibility even if its optional and not needing scalability e.g. when WiFi 6E, even if Eero Pro has speed disadvantage, daily use you are unlikely to notice it.

 

[Trip]

But in all honesty, I think the primary reason why I fell in love with UniFi (and retrospectively really liked Eero Pro) is they give REAL world difference in daily internet use. Because they just work and stable. I don't see sudden internet is not connected message. Web page opens instantly. All these should be achievable even with 10 Mbps speed. (4K video stream needs little higher Mbps). But Orbi nor Asus AiMesh just didn't give these flawless experience. I got complaints from family member. In retrospect, it could have been unstable 2.4 GHz band (at least on AiMesh).

So I'd consider Eero Pro and UniFi for their stability: Setup, connect and forget. If you want to see the highest number on speed test (like myself to get fully convinced), UniFi did convince me with testing against my WiFi 6 AiMesh. But I bet there are other WiFi 6 system that can achieve truly high speed test result. For me UniFi hits all the balance so well with future scalability. But if you are not needing much customization/flexibility even if its optional and not needing scalability e.g. when WiFi 6E, even if Eero Pro has speed disadvantage, daily use you are unlikely to notice it.

This right here could prevent a good 25-50% of the posts right now on reddit/r/homenetworking, lol. I've been beating the SQM and SMB-grade product horse for a while now. Would be great if a decision-tree guide, from consumer all-in-ones to enterprise gear and everything in between, could be stickied atop certain sub-forums here, along with a link to that Duckware article as ancillary education.

 

[K-2SO]

This right here could prevent a good 25-50% of the posts

Not related to this discussion, but I have to to say something.
Hey @Trip, I was reading your post one by one for over 2h now. You are in front of wrong audience, sir. What you bring to the table should generate thousands of likes. Then I looked at your profile page. What I see there is people don't understand what you're saying. You're overqualified for this place. Respect.

 

[Tech Focus]

This right here could prevent a good 25-50% of the posts right now on reddit/r/homenetworking, lol. I've been beating the SQM and SMB-grade product horse for a while now. Would be great if a decision-tree guide, from consumer all-in-ones to enterprise gear and everything in between, could be stickied atop certain sub-forums here, along with a link to that Duckware article as ancillary education.

Thanks. Yeah, it's easy for us (including myself obviously) to go with NUMBERS on the box, and that's what consumer network products are doing. But I think the Duckware's article is amazing. It is the one really made sense to me, but it is probably too much geek reading for the most.

 

[Trip]

@K-2SO - Wow, very kind words. Thank you. Happy to help when I can.

@Tech Focus - Yeah, that article tries to put things into layman's terms for most people, but it's still pretty heavy on the geek-speak. Still a great resource.

 

[tigerfan_9]

Not related to this discussion, but I have to to say something.
Hey @Trip, I was reading your post one by one for over 2h now. You are in front of wrong audience, sir. What you bring to the table should generate thousands of likes. Then I looked at your profile page. What I see there is people don't understand what you're saying. You're overqualified for this place. Respect.

Ditto on this..... @Trip has excellent posts and is incredible helpful.

 

[lardo5150]

But in all honesty, I think the primary reason why I fell in love with UniFi (and retrospectively really liked Eero Pro) is they give REAL world difference in daily internet use. Because they just work and stable. I don't see sudden internet is not connected message. Web page opens instantly. All these should be achievable even with 10 Mbps speed. (4K video stream needs little higher Mbps). But Orbi nor Asus AiMesh just didn't give these flawless experience. I got complaints from family member. In retrospect, it could have been unstable 2.4 GHz band (at least on AiMesh)

So, what I am getting is, for you, the Unifi and Eero were stable and just worked, unlike the others (Orbi, etc.) had issues (which is what I am reading as well).
With performance, right now it does not matter because most clients (according to the duck article) are only 2x2MiMo. Even though the Unifi is 4x4 and the Eero is 2x2, the Unifi is not necassarily better in performance because clients can only connect 2x2 (according to the article it is rare for a battery powered client to have more than 2x2).

So, if that is correct, I am taking your advice for either the Unifi or Eero. I have read there are firmware and connection problems with the Orbi, and just buggy stuff with the Nest.

Can you remember from experience how coverage was compared between the two and how switching between points was?