Planning wired home network

[kingwi11y]

Hi - I'm looking to begin creating a wired network in my house in the UK
- Wireless and boosters and powerline adaptors are current setup but irritating drop-outs and now need to have internet connection in an external garage

Our router is in a downstairs family area in the centre of a 2 storey house
I dont have a room where I am keen to have the equipment accessible
- Planning on sending a cable form the router out through the wall, up the side of the house and into the eaves of the roof to the loft
- Then using a switch there and distributing wired connections to various areas of the house

Eventually will add in Wireless AP's via this network - but that is for the future - will run those cables inside the walls when we redecorate and I am allowed to make holes in the walls!
The connection is 1GB so planning Cat6, the lengths of cable are fairly short so didn't see the point of Cat6a
Several cables will run alongside or in close proximity to DC and/or AC cables therefore planning FTP cables
So my plan was to have a switch with around 8 ports in the loft - nothing too fancy

Q's:

• Is there an issue with putting this equipment in an uninsulated loft? Climate range is -5 to +30 degC
• What connection type should I use at each end? At wall connections in rooms, I had planned to use an RJ45 wall module like this but then saw that a keystone jack such as this could be fitted into a wall module adaptor
  • My gut feeling is the first one would be just fine - is there an advantage of the keystone in the rooms?
• In the loft, I had planned to just terminate the Cat6 cable into the switch via an RJ45 - I have bought a Netgear GS308E
• Then I realised that with the FTP cable, the shielding will need to be grounded - I believe this needs to occur at the switch end of the cable in the loft
  • However with the switch being supplied by a DC adaptor, it is not earthed itself
  • So I need a patch panel which I can attach the Cat6 FTP cable to via a key-stone - with the shielding grounded via this
  • But then I need to ground the patch panel
  • This patch panelhas sufficient space, it states it accepts FTP keystone modules
    • But how would I go about grounding this patch panel? It isn't going into a rack and it doesnt seem to have an earthing tail
    • Is it sufficient to take an earth cable (e.g. 4mm^2/12AWG), wrap this round the eye on the patch panel and bolt it in plate when I fix the panel to the wall?
    • the other end I would then terminate inside an existing electical socket's earth connection

I would me most grateful for any advice - especially if any of my assumptions are incorrect
Many thanks

 

[eightiescalling]

I'll leave the questions around grounding and power interference to others but are you sure on that temperature range for the loft?

The lofts have a nasty habit of concentrating heat at times and getting quite a bit hotter in the summer.

What sort of operating temperature range does the kit you're looking at have?

 

[kingwi11y]

I'll leave the questions around grounding and power interference to others but are you sure on that temperature range for the loft?

The lofts have a nasty habit of concentrating heat at times and getting quite a bit hotter in the summer.

What sort of operating temperature range does the kit you're looking at have?

Thanks - it’ll only be the switch up there at the moment I think - the switch operating temp is 0-40 degC. That temp range is typical of our climate. If I find it stops working during a heatwave that’ll be my answer and I guess I’ll have to relocate things to a room in the house - maybe just leaving a patch panel up there which shouldn’t generate heat (?)
I have had a PoE NVR system up there over the last 7 years which does kick out a fair bit of heat - and this has coped so far so I am optimistic.
Are there any logistical issues with putting it in the roof? I’m hoping to set it and forget it

 

[tgl]

Like @eightiescalling, I will pass on the grounding question. (You would do well to consult a locally-licensed electrician, because building codes vary from place to place.) As for the temperature question, 10 degrees C is not the kind of margin you want, because attics get hot when it's warm outside and the sun is beating down. I will tell a somewhat-related story on myself: a couple decades back, I had whole-house A/C installed, with an air handler up in the attic. It worked great, except that the drain pump kept failing and needing to be replaced every year or two, always in the summer when it was really unpleasant for the A/C to stop working. Eventually some bright repairman said "the pump is getting fried because it's too darn warm up there in the summer". We put in an inexpensive temperature-activated exhaust fan, and have not seen such a failure since. You might want to consider putting a similar fan up there, because aside from not frying your electronics it will probably make things a tad more comfortable downstairs too.

 

[kingwi11y]

Like @eightiescalling, I will pass on the grounding question. (You would do well to consult a locally-licensed electrician, because building codes vary from place to place.) As for the temperature question, 10 degrees C is not the kind of margin you want, because attics get hot when it's warm outside and the sun is beating down. I will tell a somewhat-related story on myself: a couple decades back, I had whole-house A/C installed, with an air handler up in the attic. It worked great, except that the drain pump kept failing and needing to be replaced every year or two, always in the summer when it was really unpleasant for the A/C to stop working. Eventually some bright repairman said "the pump is getting fried because it's too darn warm up there in the summer". We put in an inexpensive temperature-activated exhaust fan, and have not seen such a failure since. You might want to consider putting a similar fan up there, because aside from not frying your electronics it will probably make things a tad more comfortable downstairs too.

Thanks - will have a look at fans

 

[kingwi11y]

Any thoughts on cable choice/ connector type / grounding?
The grounding is just for the shielding of the cable - am thinking along the lines of scratching some paint off the patch panel and finding a metal clip of some sort to attach an earth wire to it - thanks

 

[degrub]

bring all your connections into an interior wall in the climate controlled part of the loft. There are termination panels that fit between studs in the wall. If you have lathe and plaster, use a surface mount box. You may have to run surface mount panduit channel anyway. Mount the switch on the wall, maybe inside a closet.
CAT5E , twisted pair should be fine with no earthed shield. The twisting cancels any pickup. Just keep 1 ft away from electrical where running parallel. This is code in the US and should be similar in the UK. Consult an electrician familiar with low voltage cabling installation requirements. Cable and alarm installers are usually pretty good at that type of work for reasonable price, at least her in US.

 

[kingwi11y]

bring all your connections into an interior wall in the climate controlled part of the loft. There are termination panels that fit between studs in the wall. If you have lathe and plaster, use a surface mount box. You may have to run surface mount panduit channel anyway. Mount the switch on the wall, maybe inside a closet.
CAT5E , twisted pair should be fine with no earthed shield. The twisting cancels any pickup. Just keep 1 ft away from electrical where running parallel. This is code in the US and should be similar in the UK. Consult an electrician familiar with low voltage cabling installation requirements. Cable and alarm installers are usually pretty good at that type of work for reasonable price, at least her in US.

Thank you
However due to the cable requiring to run in close proximity to AC and DC cables through an underground conduit I am keen to use shielded cable.
Since I am trying to future proof the installation in terms of cable speed, I am keen to use cat6.
It’s the issue of correctly grounding the shielded cable I’m most unclear on practically.
I am sure I could ask a network engineer or electrician to do it for me… but I am keen to plan and execute the setup myself.

 

[nsbpx]

Consider installing fiber instead of copper.

 

[degrub]

Generally the national electrical codes do not allow running low voltage cables ( network, etc) in the same conduit as 120v ( actually 50v if i remember correctly) and higher.
So i would forget that idea and plan on a separate run or use wireless. You can ask any network install designer/planner at a company what the codes allow. They should answer without charge. Or you can get one of the code interpretation books and look for yourself under the low voltage install restrictions.
If they do allow LVC install within an electrical supply conduit, then use fiber optic cable. Do not mess with shielded cable as any faults in shield will create problems for the devices and signals on the cable. NEC code (US) requires minimum 1 ft separation for any parallel runs of LVC and 120v AC power whether using shielded cable or not.

 

[kingwi11y]

Thank you - very useful info

 

[degrub]

if you just need to add an internet connection to the garage, use point to point wireless on 2.4 GHz (or 5GHz if no physical blocking in the way (trees, walls, etc)). You may be able to use two wireless routers in bridge mode sitting in a window in each building that face each other. Or get an outside wireless bridge and mount under eave of roof or on wall. There have been a number of threads here about doing exactly this. You will need an additional AP in the garage unless you hardwire devices to the router's switch only.

You might also be able to run an ethernet cable under the ground from the house to the garage if the distance is short. Best to put in plastic conduit and bury at least 6 inches deep. Get cable rated for direct burial moisture.

 

[kingwi11y]

if you just need to add an internet connection to the garage, use point to point wireless on 2.4 GHz (or 5GHz if no physical blocking in the way (trees, walls, etc)). You may be able to use two wireless routers in bridge mode sitting in a window in each building that face each other. Or get an outside wireless bridge and mount under eave of roof or on wall. There have been a number of threads here about doing exactly this. You will need an additional AP in the garage unless you hardwire devices to the router's switch only.

You might also be able to run an ethernet cable under the ground from the house to the garage if the distance is short. Best to put in plastic conduit and bury at least 6 inches deep. Get cable rated for direct burial moisture.

Thanks - yes keen to avoid more wireless if possible though
I have buried plastic conduit in situ, I have outdoor rated FTP Cat6 ethernet cable ready to be pulled through
The snag is that there will be DC cable running in the same conduit - which could provide some issues with interference, however given that the Cat6 is FTP shielded and the cable is DC rather than AC, I wonder if interference is likely to be as much an issue
In terms of grounding the shielding of the cable I am planning to use a FTP rated keystone into a patch panel and somehow ground the patch panel to the house earth
At one end an earth cable running into a plug - plugged into a socket would seem a simple solution
At the other end making a secure connection between the earth cable and the patch panel I am a little unclear the best way to do this
Thanks!

 

[degrub]

The UK is different in how they solve the same issues. CONSULT with an electrician or network installer for installation requirements and advice specific to your system. Below points out some issues that may be created without expert/qualified review.

How is power supplied to the garage ?
1) directly from the house with no separate breaker panel in the garage ?
2) directly from house WITH a separate breaker box ?

If #2, check for an earthing rod very close to the garage breaker box.
#1 can have issues if you create a ground loop by installing a local earthing point.

The issue with shields is that they are connected to earth at one end only. If, through the cable connection to powered equipment the shield becomes connected to earth at the other end, a ground loop will be formed. Depending on soil conditions, this can create significant voltage difference and damage the connected equipment. i have seen >50 v differences over very short runs, which fried the some of the chips in the equipment.


It is not as simple as just running an earthing wire from the cabinet frame. Any installed electronics may also become bonded to that frame through screws or bolts to the frame through their metal case. This can set up ground loops.

What is the voltage on the DC circuit ? When the insulation breaks down ( it will over time with moisture exposure), it will leak to the water in the conduit. Don't pull through same conduit with different service class. Most reliable bet is to run a second plastic conduit near the DC conduit and run your cat6 through that.

 

[anotherengineer]

Not much to offer. But as someone who cut out walls to run networks wire a few suggestions.

get premade cat cables and use keystone couplers

make sure network cables are certified ieee etc

check on incremental cost to 6a or stp 6a. $100 cheap compared to time cutting out walls again

 

[tgl]

CONSULT with an electrician or network installer for installation requirements and advice specific to your system.

Yeah. If you want to learn to be an electrician, go to school. DIY is unlikely to end well: maybe you won't burn your house down, but when it comes time to sell the place and the buyer's house inspector finds that your installation is not up to code, you'll be in for grief and expense.

 

[DominikHoffmann]

I would be worried about condensation. If the temperature suddenly swings from cold to hot, the air will contain more moisture and will then condense on the metal components as they will take longer to warm up.

 

[drinkingbird]

Yeah. If you want to learn to be an electrician, go to school. DIY is unlikely to end well: maybe you won't burn your house down, but when it comes time to sell the place and the buyer's house inspector finds that your installation is not up to code, you'll be in for grief and expense.

None of that applies to low voltage wiring. There is very little code related to low voltage and pretty much every house violates it anyway as ISP installers don't care.

Most electricians are the WORST low voltage installers. Constantly re-terminating crap they've done backwards, wrong, etc. Actually I constantly see electrical stuff they've done wrong as well.