Recommendations for Home Backup

[eRaz0r]

Background : I have a wife and 4 kids and all of us have our own computers. Some of us have more than one (guilty as charged). I was considering a NAS for the sole purpose of backing up all of our data. After asking some advice here already, and considering what we *really* need, I'm reconsidering the strategy.


1) Backup. This device should be able to schedule backups. Ideally, it should "pull", so that I don't have to administer the kids laptops in order to back things up. We're all on wireless, so high-performance will be wasted.

I am considering ReadyNAS for this because they can "pull". Right now, it's between the 1TB Duo for $250 and an open-box diskless NV+ I can get for $350 (+cost of drives). I would love to hear any opinions from the regulars here.


2) Central Storage. Basically a repository for media, since that's our most important digital artifact in our house. This box is less immediate for my needs, and may have to wait on budget. After some "re-education", this box will replace local hard-drives in our home-workflow for storage of most media. Ideally, I would like to be able to stream from this box. At present, I'm considering one of the HP Media servers, but the more I think about it, the more I am leaning to creating a HTPC with massive storage instead of a "mere" NAS. Obviously, I'll need to backup this machine to device 1 (no matter which I choose).

I don't anticipate storing too much to the cloud at this time. I will backup device 1) periodically to my old USB WD external HD (some sort of "Book") for redundancy, and store it elsewhere.

Thoughts? Especially regarding the choice between the two ReadyNAS products.

Thanks in advance.

 

[eRaz0r]

Well, looks like I missed the sale on the NV+ (d'oh). So it's back at $500 (with drives extra).

Is it worth the additional price over the Duo?

I'm looking for comments from those with actual experience using these products, since that's something the NAS Charts can't tell me.

 

[claykin]

NV+ and Duo performance are essentially the same. Same hardware. Duo is 2 disk, NV+ is 4 disk. Obviously the NV+ supports a larger volume since it can handle 4 x 1.5TB disks in XRAID or RAID 5. It will also do RAID 1.

With the Duo your max volume will be 1.5TB using XRAID or RAID 1.

(Both support RAID 0, but don't go there please if you want any level of protection for your data.)

Make sure you consult the Readynas disk compatibility chart before buying disks. DON'T JUST BUY DISKS AND ASSUME THEY WILL WORK. This goes for any NAS.

About backup, pull backup from Windows clients can be problematic. If you are set on doing it this way realize that you'll need static IP's for your Windows clients and you'll also need to copy files using admin credentials. Next thing, inuse, system, locked files cannot backup this way and will result in error messages in the Readynas logs. I highly recommend you have the NAS send you backup logs via email as you may find pull backup jobs fail for one reason or another.

 

[eRaz0r]

Thanks for the advice. I am definitely sticking to disks on the compatibility charts.

I settled on the Duo, with a 1TB disk pre-installed (with a discount it was like getting the hard-drive for free) + another drive of the same type to install for RAID 1.
I will avoid RAID 0 striping for the data loss possibility. Fortunately, Flex-RAID supports multiple volumes in RAID 0, so were I to go that way, I'd create a volume for each physical disk rather than 1 volume for all (which eliminates the chance that one disk failure destroys the entire store). Even so, I'm definitely going for redundancy over space at this time. The purpose of this NAS is backup.

Thanks also for the heads up on the problems with "pull" from Windows clients. There's no way for the thing to copy from DHCP -assigned IP devices? That's interesting. Might have to go with the backup program on each source after all .

 

[claykin]

Thanks also for the heads up on the problems with "pull" from Windows clients. There's no way for the thing to copy from DHCP -assigned IP devices? That's interesting. Might have to go with the backup program on each source after all .

I just tested with my Duo and provided all clients are on the same subnet you should be able to use Windows NETBIOS names. Don't use any "\\" when specifying the name or path in the Duo. The Duo only wants the actual NETBIOS name and the name of the share on the Windows client. This will eliminate the static IP issue (or hopefully it will over the long haul). Alternatively, if NETBIOS names won't work for you, maybe you can set reserved DHCP addresses on your home router. This way clients will always receive the same IP.

Please make sure to password protect your Windows shares since users may take their notebooks out of the LAN and you don't want your data to be easily accessible to others.

The other issues still apply when pulling from the Windows client. I recall trying to use this a while back and I just had too many issues. There's nothing like pushing from a backup program on the client.

 

[ez1]

One more option to review: Windows Home Server.

You stated you need:

"1) Backup. This device should be able to schedule backups. Ideally, it should "pull", so that I don't have to administer the kids laptops in order to back things up. We're all on wireless, so high-performance will be wasted.

I am considering ReadyNAS for this because they can "pull". Right now, it's between the 1TB Duo for $250 and an open-box diskless NV+ I can get for $350 (+cost of drives). I would love to hear any opinions from the regulars here."

WHS can back-up 10 computers and can be scheduled anytime you want. If a computer harddrive fails, then a full restore (bare metal) can be done on a new drive. I'm not on a wireless network, so, I can only assume this would not be an isssue with WHS.


"2) Central Storage. Basically a repository for media, since that's our most important digital artifact in our house. This box is less immediate for my needs, and may have to wait on budget. After some "re-education", this box will replace local hard-drives in our home-workflow for storage of most media. Ideally, I would like to be able to stream from this box. At present, I'm considering one of the HP Media servers, but the more I think about it, the more I am leaning to creating a HTPC with massive storage instead of a "mere" NAS. Obviously, I'll need to backup this machine to device 1 (no matter which I choose)."

My WHS stores all the video, music, and photo files. I have a separate HTPC that can access all of these. Video file storage takes up a lot of space, so find a computer case that can handle many drives. WHS has almost no limit on the drives that can be added to the storage pool. It also has a RAID 1 like function that duplicates files between different drives that gives some protection in case of a drive failure.

 

[claykin]

One more option to review: Windows Home Server.

You stated you need:

"1) Backup. This device should be able to schedule backups. Ideally, it should "pull", so that I don't have to administer the kids laptops in order to back things up. We're all on wireless, so high-performance will be wasted.

I am considering ReadyNAS for this because they can "pull". Right now, it's between the 1TB Duo for $250 and an open-box diskless NV+ I can get for $350 (+cost of drives). I would love to hear any opinions from the regulars here."

WHS can back-up 10 computers and can be scheduled anytime you want. If a computer harddrive fails, then a full restore (bare metal) can be done on a new drive. I'm not on a wireless network, so, I can only assume this would not be an isssue with WHS.

Yes, WHS should handle backup of client files and can also do hot imaging of clients. And, yes it does support bare metal restore, but only to same hardware (see more on this below). WHS also supports single instance storage, which can save tons of disk space.

Keep in mind that WHS is not without its issues. FYI, while the above should work, there are forums that poke at the VSS service not working properly. VSS is required to do imaging and backup of any locked files with WHS. I recommend you do more research on this to see if Microsoft has finally resolved the issues.

Check here:
http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/category/windowshomeserver

http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/whsfaq/thread/8d33e766-69b0-497d-8938-8371492cd3f7/

http://social.microsoft.com/forums/en-US/whssuggestions/thread/b7cc7610-9ceb-42ab-89f5-f62b60e27c1f/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Home_Server

You can also read up on the latest news from the WHS team here (maybe somewhere here they discuss fixing the VSS issues??).

http://blogs.technet.com/homeserver/default.aspx

Also, the WHS requires you install the client software on all PC's that want to use the WHS. I say this because if I recall correctly, you were trying to find a solution that does not require software on your clients.

About bare metal restore, imagine your hardware is toast and you want to restore. So, you want to buy a new notebook to replace the old one, replace a motherboard with a new one, etc... The WHS image restoration will NOT work in this case. It requires restore to the same hardware.

Other imaging products such as Symantec Backup Exec System Recovery 8.5, StorageCraft Shadowprotect, and Acronis Backup & Recovery 10 (business version) support the ability to restore to dissimilar hardware. Its not foolproof, but in my experience it works most of the time. it also seems to work better if your stick with Intel hardware.

The Acronis solution also supports deduplication which is very similar to WHS single instance storage. Unfortunately, it will cost you about $130/machine for the Acronis solution.

"2) Central Storage. Basically a repository for media, since that's our most important digital artifact in our house. This box is less immediate for my needs, and may have to wait on budget. After some "re-education", this box will replace local hard-drives in our home-workflow for storage of most media. Ideally, I would like to be able to stream from this box. At present, I'm considering one of the HP Media servers, but the more I think about it, the more I am leaning to creating a HTPC with massive storage instead of a "mere" NAS. Obviously, I'll need to backup this machine to device 1 (no matter which I choose)."

My WHS stores all the video, music, and photo files. I have a separate HTPC that can access all of these. Video file storage takes up a lot of space, so find a computer case that can handle many drives. WHS has almost no limit on the drives that can be added to the storage pool. It also has a RAID 1 like function that duplicates files between different drives that gives some protection in case of a drive failure.

Take a look at the new Lenovo WHS. Looks good.

WHS uses a RAID like technology called Drive Extender that duplicates all data across more than 1 disk. Its fairly nice and offers the ability for users to designate files/directories that they do not want duplicated (i.e. large movie file that you can live without in the event of a failure). WHS Drive Extender disks can be read outside the WHS in case of emergency recovery. Files show up in a hidden folder called DE.

To sum it up, the WHS is a nice solution, provided you can live with the 10 client limit. Also, be prepared to add WHS antivirus as this is highly recommended since you are running a Windows based server. Also be prepared for issues, because like many NAS solutions, it has issues. And, if you have any Macs or PC's with an OS prior to XP SP2, you are SOL.

 

[ez1]

All good points made by claykin.

The VSS issue has not affected me and it's recommended not to use it until it's fixed. http://mswhs.com/2008/03/27/volume-shadow-services-vss-on-whs/

My path to using WHS was prompted by a RAID hardware failure on a desktop PC. After losing almost all my data, I tried a Dlink NAS thinking it was a step up. I had that set-up for about a week and tried updating the firmware via a wireless network. That made the Dlink NAS a brick. Not wanting to get burnt again, I built my own WHS box.

The positives:

1. Expandable storage. I've got 6 TB right now with the ability to go up to 12 TB.
2. Client backups. I have lost a client hard drive and was able to do a full restore to a new hard drive.
3. The data files on the server are NTFS. A hard drive, if needed, can be moved to a client PC and the files are readable.
4. Integrates nicely with my HTPC running Windows Media Center.

The negatives:

1. WHS currently has no way to duplicate the system drive. In case of a hard drive failure, a server reinstall will need to be done (no data lost, just the time to rebuild). That is why I use a robust RAID control card and set-up just the system drive in RAID 1.

2. It's a Microsoft product. You will be limited to what type of client PC's can access WHS.

The one thing I've noticed since I set-up WHS with 3 clients, I really don't need huge hard drives in the clients. I'll critical data is stored on the server where anyone can access if their permission is set-up to allow it.

Not a perfect product, but, since we've been using it my spouse has stopped complaining about not seeing our video library.