CakeQOS Still having ping spikes, even with QOS on. Bad gaming experience.

[askan7]

Guys I need your help, I've been having issues for a long time now, tried everything to fix it without success.
I have a ADSL2+ connection 12 down, 1 up. SNR margin is very high, at around 14db. My ISP is very conservative, this should be good for 15/16mb.

Without QOS, it's IMPOSSIBLE to play any game if there's an upload/download going on, with crazy packet loss and 1000ms spikes. With QOS it's much improved, but i still have spikes of 100ms when a download starts, it stabilizes right after, but if there are burst of downloads I get those spikes constantly and it's a really bad experience. A client watching Netflix is enough for this to happen, as it uses max bandwith for a while, stops and starts again.
If I run DSLreports while another client is using upload/download I also get a lot of re transmissions and a bad Quality score.

Without qos



Cake-qos

Upload was being used by another client on both tests. The download ping spike you see on dslreports with cake on happens every time a download burst happens, if the download has a stable speed ping is stable. If it bursts ping spikes a lot.

What can i do to improve this, should I get an EdgeRouter to take care of QOS or a new ADSL modem? My ISP said there are no issues with my line. AC86U is connected to the ISP's router, tg784 v3 (bridge mode).

 

[pattiri]

Sorry but with these bandwidths, with ADSL2+ and 14db SNR you don't have much thing to do. Gaming mostly depends on your upload speed and while you gaming, if anyone or any device in your network does any basic internet traffic (even DNS request or web browsing) will impact your gaming experience. Change your ISP if you can. IMHO, buying EdgeRouter or any high end router won't help you.

 

[askan7]

Sorry but with these bandwidths, with ADSL2+ and 14db SNR you don't have much thing to do. Gaming mostly depends on your upload speed and while you gaming, if anyone or any device in your network does any basic internet traffic (even DNS request or web browsing) will impact your gaming experience. Change your ISP if you can. IMHO, buying EdgeRouter or any high end router won't help you.

The gaming i do barely uses any bandwidth, like 5% of my upload. Mostly fps shooters. And no, dns requests don't cause ping spikes for me. Loading a non cached web pages can cause spikes yes, because it saturates the downlink.

 

[heysoundude]

The gaming i do barely uses any bandwidth, like 5% of my upload. Mostly fps shooters. And no, dns requests don't cause ping spikes for me. Loading a non cached web pages can cause spikes yes, because it saturates the downlink.

see the problem? saturated downlink.
(are you also running unbound? I know you're talking browser cache, but DNS caching might help you somewhat as well)

 

[dave14305]

Why gaming on a DSL line is terrible and the math says there’s nothing you can do about it | Models Of Reality

models.street-artists.org

 

[L&LD]

Your first post isn't clear if you're gaming on a wired connection or wirelessly? If wirelessly, what band are you on (2.5GHz or 5.0GHz)? If wirelessly, have you tried running an Ethernet cable as a test to your gaming system to see if/how much the experience improves?

Unless you've already done it (and even then, have a read at the suggestions in the link below to determine how thorough that was), I would suggest a full reset now that you're on RMerlin 386.1 release final.

Best Practice Update/Setup Router/AiMesh Node(s) 2021

The important points here:

• Fully reset the router.
• Format the JFFS partition.
• Do not plug in the USB drive that was used with amtm without first formatting it on a PC to NTFS format.
• Ignoring the 'install amtm' steps, following the amtm Step-By-Step guide (see link in my signature below) to do a fresh format, swap file, and all scripts.

I would suggest testing with no QoS (but you obviously need it), FlexQoS, and CakeQOS too, and pick the best.

In addition to Skynet, Unbound, ntpMerlin (use chronyd), and Diversion (Lite, today).

Don't be afraid to drastically limit download and upload speeds. Peak speeds are not your ISP's forte, go for the usability experience instead.

Wi-Fi Setup 25/2.5 d/u Report

 

[askan7]

I might try using Unbound and ntpMerlin, might help freeing some bandwidth even if small. I don't have that many devices connected to my network and I can game most of the time without other people using the connection.

Also why Diversion Lite? I use standard since it blocks https ads aswell.

Why gaming on a DSL line is terrible and the math says there’s nothing you can do about it | Models

Good one. That makes sense, on Apex Legends I feel/see very small micro stutters on my movement and worse hit reg when someone is uploading/downloading something. This is with cake on, those get worse with Asus adaptive qos, while ping remains de same. ~80ms, no packet loss according to game stats.

Should I get LTE instead of ADSL while waiting for fiber? I'm still very successful with high KDR on ADSL and I can play most of the time on a quiet lan.

 

[L&LD]

Why Diversion Lite? To have the router be as responsive as possible and not rely on pixelserv-tls.

That code is considered mostly abandoned now, by many.

pixelserv - pixelserv - A Better One-pixel Webserver for Adblock | SmallNetBuilder Forums (snbforums.com)

 

[raion969]

Do you think diversion lite is better than the adblock in unbound for gaming?

 

[ttgapers]

Do you think diversion lite is better than the adblock in unbound for gaming?

It's a matter of preference really. I prefer Diversion Lite as I use the Medium canned blocklist. Been using it for years and hasn't caused issues. I do use unbound as well.

 

[raion969]

unbound but without ad blocking installed in unbound?

 

[askan7]

It's a matter of preference really. I prefer Diversion Lite as I use the Medium canned blocklist. Been using it for years and hasn't caused issues. I do use unbound as well.

I know this is offtopic, but i would to know it aswell. I haven't tried unbound adblock yet, but if it works as well as diversion is one less script running. First thing I noticed when i installed unbound was that web browsing felt snappier. Running ntpmerlin + unbound + diversion + cakeqos now.

I don't think skynet is worth it for me, don't care much about the extra "security".

 

[L&LD]

What about Skynet 'isn't worth it' to you? It works in the background without as much as a hiccup.

No reason I can see to not have it running.

 

[askan7]

What about Skynet 'isn't worth it' to you? It works in the background without as much as a hiccup.

No reason I can see to not have it running.

What are the advantages of running it, it only blocks known IPs and websites right? I've not read much about it.
It's one more script, that i don't need.

 

[raion969]

For me with skynet i have higher latency tha without skynet

 

[L&LD]

@askan7, the advantages are obvious once you've used it.

(1) Skynet - Skynet - Router Firewall & Security Enhancements | SmallNetBuilder Forums (snbforums.com)

It is one more script. But one that is basically 'set and forget' while it does what it needs to keep your network protected from things you didn't/don't know about.

 

[askan7]

@askan7, the advantages are obvious once you've used it.

(1) Skynet - Skynet - Router Firewall & Security Enhancements | SmallNetBuilder Forums (snbforums.com)

It is one more script. But one that is basically 'set and forget' while it does what it needs to keep your network protected from things you didn't/don't know about.

I don't get more ping with it on, but it blocks things i use, can't even connect to match on apex legends. Uninstalled after 30min, can't be bothered unblocking everything.

 

[L&LD]

What I can't connect to I don't worry about.

There's a reason it's blocking it though. Something to think about.


Edit: Did you test with a fully sanitized network/router and fast USB drive/SSD?

 

[askan7]

What I can't connect to I don't worry about.

There's a reason it's blocking it though. Something to think about.


Edit: Did you test with a fully sanitized network/router and fast USB drive/SSD?

Yes, game opens, but can't connect to match on some servers. Not all, and I see the blocked Ips every time it tried to connect to match. AI protection is another one that sucks for me, i get 0 detection for like 1 month, only thing that it blocks is mining, with Two Way IPS on. And I like to leave my Pc mining when not gaming, since I have high end gpu.

At least skynet doesn't block mining, but since I can't play on some EA servers I don't use it either.

 

[L&LD]

Some servers. That is the point. If they're blocked, it is for a reason.

AiProtection works great for all customers I have enabled it on. Nobody asks me to disable it. But they're not miners either.

Hope you're making money burning up your GPU.