Upgrade time ... RT-AC66U-B1 to RT-AX68U?

[Natty]

Objectives: to retire / replace Wi-Fi 4 APs and replace main router with AX (Wi-Fi 6) device that can run Asuswrt-Merlin, without significantly increasing power consumption. I'm aware that Wi-Fi 7 is coming, but remaining one step behind is okay by me at the moment. Stability, security, support, and low power consumption are valued over bleeding edge speeds.

Main router currently RT-AC66U-B1, which has been working solidly and reliably running Asuswrt-Merlin. It is hard-wired to a pair of ancient TL-WDR3600 running DDWRT in AP mode (oh, the shame ). This system provides adequate coverage of a 4-floor building with solid stone walls outside and inside. Most of the 5GHz clients are local to the RT-AC66U-B1 (I'll call this AP1). But some of the wireless clients (iPhones) roam between APs, with each AP presenting a different SSID, so that's a downside. There is a PC client that supports Wi-Fi 6 using AP2 so that one is running in Wi-Fi 4 mode, which is not great. AP2 switch has a number of wired gigabit LAN devices and CAT6 to router. A really old Logitech media player has 802.11g wireless connection to AP3. AP3 is wired to main router through powerline ethernet, the latter throttling at 55Mbps , with no scope to lay in proper ethernet. WAN is 135Mbps/20Mbps. Number of wireless clients: 10 to 20 (max).

Because the system is up 24/7 and because it is in the UK where the price of electricity has become extortionately high, low power consumption is highly desirable.

Surveying the rooms served by AP3 I can see using a laptop that AP1 RT-AC66U-B1 provides better speed (100Mbps at 5GHz, 68Mbps at 2.4GHz) than AP3, even though the signal from AP1 is impeded by two solid internal walls, so I should just delete AP3 from the system and save 10 or 12 Watts and reduce RF pollution. However, the ancient 802.11g media player only gets a very iffy 13% wireless signal from the main router through its internal antenna, so it needs some help.

Questions:

1. Would RT-AX68U be a good choice for replacing RT-AC66U-B1 main wireless router?

2. For AiMesh, would it be a bad idea to replace AP2 with re-purposed RT-AC66U-B1? A downside would be the Wi-Fi 6 capable PC would only be running Wi-Fi 5. However, will the mix of AC and AX mess up the roaming of clients between AP1 & AP2 or cause stability issues?

3. Would replacing AP2 with RT-AX68U give useful improvement? Downside: doubles the cost.

4. I read somewhere on these forums that for AiMesh, the AP nodes are best run on stock Asuswrt, not Merlin. Is that true?

5. Does AiMesh provide the same friendly SSID name at 2.4GHz via all wireless APs, and ditto for 5GHz SSID name?

6. Can RT-AX68U + AiMesh provide internet to a guest LAN but isolate guests from accessing devices on the main LAN?

7. Will the ancient 802.11g media player cause any detriment to the 2.4GHz AiMesh? Would it be better to define a separate 2.4GHz SSID for this one device? Maybe run it outside the mesh somehow? Alternatively, I guess I could re-use a TL-WDR3600 as a media bridge providing wired ethernet to the media player, and turn off media player Wi-Fi? Or, replace AP3 with RT-AC66U-B1 as wireless AP but keep this one outside the AiMesh?

8. Any suggestions to achieve more stable wireless coverage and client roaming than what I'm mulling? Or, what would you do differently, bearing in mind the objectives?

Thank you for any answers and suggestions

 

[bbunge]

AX86U Pro or AX88U Pro would be better choice. AX86U Pro is now on sale.

 

[heysoundude]

the more radios you have running, the greater your electrical consumption will be; by my count at the moment you're running 6 (router and 2 APs). Are you certain you NEED to run 2.4GHz?
you could (and should probably) replace the 3 of them with 2 AX machines, and you may be able to turn off the 2.4 radios if your devices can connect to the 5Ghz and be done with things for a while until wifi7 clients are more widespread/affordable. another option is to replace the AC router with an AX and then media Bridge the AC machina to your new router if you can make wires go to clients that are older.
Hope this helps

 

[Natty]

AX86U Pro or AX88U Pro would be better choice. AX86U Pro is now on sale.

Thanks. I'm sure those have screamingly fast throughput and capability to effortlessly run AiMesh, VPNs, traffic montoring and many other bells and whistles thanks to the 2GHz quad core processor, 1GB RAM, and 4x4 wireless. But they also consume 45W and are expensive to buy in the UK (£237). Is the AX68U a bad router? It seems to be hard to find in the UK. Has supply discontinued? AX68U consumes 33W, has 1.8GHz dual core processor, 0.5GB RAM, and 3x3 wireless. Will AX68U function any worse than AX86U Pro as an Primary AiMesh Router in a system with one or two additional AiMesh nodes?

 

[Natty]

Are you certain you NEED to run 2.4GHz?

The 5GHz seems to work well when client and AP are on the same floor, but the signal penetration between floors is bad. So four floors with two APs means 2.4GHz is needed. Plus the pesky media player that sounds so wonderful is 2.4GHz wireless g only, though that could be transformed by a media bridge.

you could (and should probably) replace the 3 of them with 2 AX machines,

I agree. If I use AX68U as AiMesh Primary Router, would a low cost AiMesh node such as AX52 (12W, 2x2 wireless) do the job in place of AP2, or will this sytem crap out as soon as four or five iPhones start wandering around the place? Would it matter using AiMesh on Merlin router and Asuswrt node?

 

[Tech9]

Would RT-AX68U be a good choice

No. This router has a history of connectivity issues, had no firmware update for >1 year and is facing End-Of-Life perhaps soon. It was replaced already by multiple AX3000/AX5400 routers based on RT-AX58U V1/V2 hardware. Better look somewhere else.

 

[bbunge]

Thanks. I'm sure those have screamingly fast throughput and capability to effortlessly run AiMesh, VPNs, traffic montoring and many other bells and whistles thanks to the 2GHz quad core processor, 1GB RAM, and 4x4 wireless. But they also consume 45W and are expensive to buy in the UK (£237). Is the AX68U a bad router? It seems to be hard to find in the UK. Has supply discontinued? AX68U consumes 33W, has 1.8GHz dual core processor, 0.5GB RAM, and 3x3 wireless. Will AX68U function any worse than AX86U Pro as an Primary AiMesh Router in a system with one or two additional AiMesh nodes?

Maybe that is the reason I spent $500 more for my utilities last year. Oh wait...2023 was warmer than 2022 and costs have gone up... It's not the AX86U Pro...

 

[Tech9]

But they also consume 45W

No, the power consumption is about 20W or less.

 

[L&LD]

Unless your network is running full-tilt 24/7, no Asus router consumes 45W for normal networking activities.

Speed needs power, make your choice.

The RT-AX88U Pro is the best bang for the buck router you can buy right now. You might be able to retire all those others too.

 

[glens]

I guess he was referring to the brick capacities.

 

[Natty]

No, the power consumption is about 20W or less.

no Asus router consumes 45W for normal networking activities

I guess he was referring to the brick capacities.

Thanks all, point(s) taken. The brick capacity will always be equal to or more than the maximum power consumption, including supplying USB power, running all cores at 100%, running all wireless transceivers at full data bandwidth and full power. Power in typical use will of course be lower than this, and it is not possilbe to determine it from specs. The only way to know is to measure it in a given system under given conditions of use. I shall not be doing that, as its not like I'm power budgeting to send a space probe to the moon, and life is way too short! 20W sounds reasonable. Maybe "half the brick capacity" is a reasonable way of roughly estimating power consumption for my purposes.

I'm happy to consider RT-AX88U Pro, RT-AX86U Pro, and RT-AX86S as the primary router.

Will that work with AiMesh with RT-AX52 (non-Merlin)?

 

[glens]

And a 60W brick may be cheaper, even if not necessary, for no other reason than having just one space in the warehouse / logistics, etc., not to mention what the suppliers might prefer to do on price per quantity.

 

[Natty]

Can anyone help with the AiMesh questions...?

4. I read somewhere on these forums that for AiMesh, the AP nodes are best run on stock Asuswrt, not Merlin. Is that true?

5. Does AiMesh provide the same friendly SSID name at 2.4GHz via all wireless APs, and ditto for 5GHz SSID name?

7. Will the ancient 802.11g media player cause any detriment to the 2.4GHz AiMesh? Would it be better to define a separate 2.4GHz SSID for this one device? Maybe run it outside the mesh somehow?

 

[scrumb]

FWIW, I took a similar path to the original poster's question last year (replacing two AC68Us with two AX68Us) and couldn't be happier with the results (especially given the price differential between the AX68Us and AX86Us... the AX68Us were only $90 at the time). I've had zero connectivity issues with these (actually fixed connectivity issues I was having with our Nest Protect smoke alarms, while on the AC68Us).

Note: I don't use AiMesh, so can't provide any insight on that point

 

[glens]

4. I read somewhere on these forums that for AiMesh, the AP nodes are best run on stock Asuswrt, not Merlin. Is that true?

I've read that, too. In my limited use of "mesh" it seemed to work, as well as it can, with Merlin on the nodes.

5. Does AiMesh provide the same friendly SSID name at 2.4GHz via all wireless APs, and ditto for 5GHz SSID name?

You can have 2.4 and 5 each with their own or both the same SSID, system-wide, but you can do that running as APs, too. No difference in that regard.

7. Will the ancient 802.11g media player cause any detriment to the 2.4GHz AiMesh?

Does it presently degrade your 2.4? Do you have 2.4 clients capable of better than wifi4? If not, there should be no difference.

I'm not a "mesh" fan. I recommend you spend some time both in and out of "mesh" to reach an informed conclusion yourself.

 

[Natty]

Thanks @glens. The 802.11g question is difficult to answer. I have switched off AP3 and made the 2.4GHz g connection to the main router to see if anyone notices any issues (other than the media player possibly dropping and reconnecting due to low signal). I vaguely remember something about 2.4GHz wireless n falling back to g for the whole wireless network if any g clients connect. Does that apply to ax I wonder?

I'm not really clear on what the benefits of AiMesh are. I was thinking that maybe I could set a 2.4GHz SSID and a 5GHz SSID that magically propagate to all the nodes along with the pre-shared key. I inherently distrust anything with "AI" in its name, and I'd prefer to nail everything down into a defined state by allocating wireless channels manually. I think I can optimise that better than "the Ghost of Clippy". But if there is a further benefit to be had by using AiMesh, such as enhanced stability, greater range, less dropouts, easier admin, then I'm interested.

 

[heysoundude]

The 5GHz seems to work well when client and AP are on the same floor, but the signal penetration between floors is bad. So four floors with two APs means 2.4GHz is needed. Plus the pesky media player that sounds so wonderful is 2.4GHz wireless g only, though that could be transformed by a media bridge.


I agree. If I use AX68U as AiMesh Primary Router, would a low cost AiMesh node such as AX52 (12W, 2x2 wireless) do the job in place of AP2, or will this sytem crap out as soon as four or five iPhones start wandering around the place? Would it matter using AiMesh on Merlin router and Asuswrt node?

WiFi6/AX is different, so you probably will be able to get away with one router/AP/radio set for two floors...location location location...
If the media player can be wired, it should be AFAIC.

AX86 Pro forr router on Merlin, AX86s as node on stock if you can have a wired backhaul between them will probably do the trick...and I would even start with no 2.4 as a punt. If there are issues it can be activated, but give it a go without first.

 

[ColinTaylor]

The only way to know is to measure it in a given system under given conditions of use. I shall not be doing that, as its not like I'm power budgeting to send a space probe to the moon, and life is way too short! 20W sounds reasonable.

When electricity costs came up before I did measure it.

There was recently a similar discussion in another thread. In that thread I measured the power consumption of my RT-AX86U in normal operation and found it consumed 9.0 Watts. So that's 78.84 kWh a year. EDF's current variable tariff is 35.32p per kWh which would equate to a total cost of £27.85 a year.

 

[Tech9]

I inherently distrust anything with "AI" in its name

Nothing AI there. Just a marketing name of wired access points or wireless repeaters with one VLAN for Guest Network 1. In reality - higher maintenance and works worse than Qualcomm based products like Amazon eero, Google Nest Wifi, some of the TP-Link Deco, etc. If you want better Wi-Fi and still affordable - controlled based UniFi, Omada or a cluster of Cisco, Zyxel APs. Without AI claims some of the systems actually track client movements end encourage client roaming by dynamically adjusting the AP Tx power. Business APs are VLAN capable and have PoE power option for cleaner setup. Don't limit yourself to only to what you know today. Multiple threads with example systems here on SNB Forums. Also users around using Asus routers for familiar Asuswrt-Merlin and something better for Wi-Fi.

 

[Natty]

Thx. So, its looking like this, serving floors 0 to 3:

• RT-AX86 Pro - main router on floor 1 next to cable modem. Needs 2.4GHz to penetrate the ceiling fireproofing to the below-ground basement (floor 0).
• RT-AX86S - node on floor 3. Existing wired CAT6 backhaul to main router. Again, 5Ghz penetration through floors is poor so will probably need 2.4GHz for floor 2.
• Media player on floor 1: main router is three solid walls away so probably use a media bridge linking to media player ethernet port to circumvent the dreadful and probably insecure 802.11g wireless connection. Long live the RT-AC66U-B1.
• I'll avoid AiMesh and continue with manual channel allocation as I have been doing previously.

Cost (currently £444) and power consumption (~20W(?) net added) not as low as I was hoping, but I think I can live with that as long as this sytem will be reliable and stable from the client/user perspective, and low maintainance, and easy to manage once set up, and not need replacing for several years. The Asus gear seems to have increased in price a lot since promos in last year or two. Is it worth waiting for prices to drop or is that just dreaming?

Not sure if the node AP should also run Merlin. I prefer the support, stability, and familiarity of Merlin.