WAN to LAN throughput or Max Sim Connections??

[sudzinsky]

I do a lot of online gaming and download primarily through bittorrent..
According to the router performance charts, for both of those, I want to look at max simultaneous connections. Which the Engenius ESR 7750 is top of the charts for my price range.

However in looking at WAN to LAN throughput..the ESR 9850 blows the 7750 out of the water, but is only about half the max sim connections.

Am I better off with more connections or more throughput for gaming and torrenting?

 

[thiggins]

Possibly, neither.

A router with throughput much faster than your Internet connection supports doesn't provide any benefit. All you need is one with throughput about 10% higher than your service.

A router that can handle more simultaneous connections than another might be useful. But once you get above, even 1000 connections, there again is limited benefit.

Most (all?) torrent and gaming apps now let you control the # of connections. Once you get above a couple of hundred, for torrenting at least, you're reaching the point of diminishing returns. More connections = lower speed per connection.

Don't get caught up in the spec game. Think about what you need and buy accordingly.

 

[sudzinsky]

Thanks for the advice..I am definitely caught up in the spec game here.
Being that I live in the US, my Internet connection is quite limited and I have a 20/2 cable service.

One other question I've been trying to decide upon is if I should purchase a router that is already known to support dd-wrt or tomato? I know that these firmware replacements do offer up more (or easier) configuration support but is there really any other benefit?

 

[thiggins]

One other question I've been trying to decide upon is if I should purchase a router that is already known to support dd-wrt or tomato? I know that these firmware replacements do offer up more (or easier) configuration support but is there really any other benefit?

Alternative distros do typically provide more features than factory firmware. But they don't improve performance. Again, do the distros you're considering really provide features that you don't get in the stock routers?

 

[occamsrazor]

Alternative distros do typically provide more features than factory firmware. But they don't improve performance. Again, do the distros you're considering really provide features that you don't get in the stock routers?

Depends how you define performance I guess. I'll happily admit I'm a big fan of Tomato.

> I do a lot of online gaming and download primarily through bittorrent.

In which case I would imagine well-running QoS would be a key factor, and would affect your "perceived performance". Tomato's implementation of this is pretty good I believe (I haven't used others but people generally say it is good). As for your throughput I don't think 20/2 with bittorrenting is that much, and most routers should handle it.

Best-supported 3rd party router at the moment is the Asus RT-N16 I'd say. Unless you need 5Ghz N wireless that is (It only has 2.4Ghz N wireless). There is an experimental build with dual-band support for the Linksys E3000, but it's maybe still a bit rough at the edges if you haven't used 3rd party software before.

Not trying to sway you, but if you have a bit of technical knowledge and don't mind tinkering a bit, 3rd Party is the way to go. I've been using Tomato for many years and never looked back.

 

[thiggins]

Depends how you define performance I guess.

I'm referring to wireless and routing throughput and stability.
Can DD-WRT or Tomato Fix Bad Routing?

I understand your point on QoS. Does Tomato now do up and downlink QoS.

 

[occamsrazor]

I'm referring to wireless and routing throughput and stability.
Can DD-WRT or Tomato Fix Bad Routing?

Yeah I know, and I have no reason to doubt your testing. Although Tomato has come a long way since 1.19. My point to the OP was more that raw throughput and simultaneous connections with a 20/2 connection are unlikely to be the primary factor in how the user perceives the speed, particularly if he needs good latency for gaming. With the "fastest" router in the world in terms of simultaneous connections and throughput, if he is torrenting then that can still saturate his line and hinder other activities e.g. gaming and VOIP.

I understand your point on QoS. Does Tomato now do up and downlink QoS.

Good question. My limited understanding was that no QoS operates on the downlink directly, it can only operate on the uplink, BUT it can use its control of the uplink to indirectly control/affect the downlink. Errr, I think. "Toastman" is the expert at Tomato QoS, and has a lengthy tutorial/discussion of this subject here, and good tutorials on Tomato QoS setup here. That said his setups are designed mainly for networks with 100s of users.

I really can't claim any expertise in this stuff myself, but the Tomato QoS setup works well for me in prioritizing VOIP while torrenting, among other things. But you DO have to set it up right....

 

[thiggins]

Good question. My limited understanding was that no QoS operates on the downlink directly, it can only operate on the uplink, BUT it can use its control of the uplink to indirectly control/affect the downlink. Errr, I think.

That's certainly how Ubicom's auto QoS works. But queues and bandwidth control can be done in both directions and are in some routers, Drayteks for example. Uplink QoS only tends to be the norm, though in many routers that expose QoS features.

 

[sudzinsky]

In lieu of the explanations I think I will go with Netgear's WNR3500L since it's carried at Microcenter which I have a gift card for. Seems like it has strong hardware and has gigabit (both my cable modem and computer are gb) and looks like a lot of great reviews.

Does this router compete with the Asus RT-N16? Wireless isn't a concern of mine...I'm not sure how much different 64 and 128 ram makes a diff in a router but I do like the idea of torrenting directly to the external drive connected to the router with the Asus. Still trying to find out if this is possible with the Netgear.

 

[occamsrazor]

That's certainly how Ubicom's auto QoS works. But queues and bandwidth control can be done in both directions and are in some routers, Drayteks for example. Uplink QoS only tends to be the norm, though in many routers that expose QoS features.

I defer to your better understanding. Actually I think my earlier comments may have been incorrect. Tomato does indeed allow you to set inbound QoS limits, as shown here. I guess I'm still confused by the whole thing

Apologies to the OP for getting a bit off-topic...

 

[sudzinsky]

I just read an interesting feature of the Asus, being that a PS3 can read from the external drive connected to the router. I play a lot of digital content through my PS3 with an external drive and am constantly plugging in that drive to my computer for file transfers.

This is quite the feature for me so my last questions before purchase are..Are these features with the Asus (torrenting directly to the drive and reading it from my PS3) available with the open source firmwares?

Does the Netgear have either of those functionalities (with or without open source firmware) ?

Thanks for the help and explanations guys, I appreciate it!

 

[sudzinsky]

Took some digging but I found that both Netgear and Asus are capable of serving up movies and such from a connected HDD. I just decided to go with the Asus as it seems to have a larger community and open source support, and double the ram and usb ports.
Thanks again for the help!

 

[occamsrazor]

Took some digging but I found that both Netgear and Asus are capable of serving up movies and such from a connected HDD. I just decided to go with the Asus as it seems to have a larger community and open source support, and double the ram and usb ports.
Thanks again for the help!

I think it's a good choice, whether you use 3rd Party firmware or not. But I would say that on almost all routers with USB storage ports, don't be expecting any great speeds when reading from the connected hard drive....

 

[sdeleeuw]

I'm referring to wireless and routing throughput and stability.
Can DD-WRT or Tomato Fix Bad Routing?

I understand your point on QoS. Does Tomato now do up and downlink QoS.

Very informative link... I like the feautres DD-WRT gives you, and the nicer looking interface, but I also noticed similiar things. On the Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH wireless and WAN to LAN throughput were better on the Buffalo firmware than with DD-WRT unfortunately. It seems in a lot of ways different than stock firmware is chosen simply because it's different and therefore must be better.