Why NAS-to-NAS vs. NAS-to-external USB drive? (and other questions)

[dev]

I'm very new to NAS and have some basic questions.

I'd like to get a Synology DS109 and put a 1.5TB Western Digital Green drive in it. It'll be attached to my Apple Time Capsule which I use as my wireless router for 802.11n devices in my house (802.11b devices run off a separate router).

Now I know that I'll need a backup of the contents of this NAS. My plan was to buy a 1.5TB USB/ESATA external drive from Seagate or Western Digital and use that to periodically backup my NAS to.

So my questions at this point are:

1. What's the advantage of buying 2 NAS devices to do NAS to NAS backup over the method above where I backup 1 NAS to an external hard drive? Why do I see this method recommended here vs. the NAS to external drive backup? For what it's worth I wouldn't be backing up from one NAS to another NAS offsite. I am not sure how I could do that given a typical cable modem connection at home.

2. Maybe related to above, if I buy that Synology DS109 I understand that the hard drive will be formatted EXT3, correct? Does this mean that the external USB/ESATA hard drive I get must also be formatted as EXT3 to do backups to it from the NAS?

2a. If my external/backup drive is formatted EXT3, how can I access it to read data if/when the NAS fails? I only have Macs running OS 10.5.X. What is this procedure like?

Could I take the drive from the external enclosure and drop it into the NAS (provided it was just a drive failure in the NAS and not a failure in the controller or some other component)? I was thinking that would give me access to my files again over the network from my Macs.

This forum has been a fantastic resource! Saved me from originally buying a 2-drive NAS RAID1 thinking I'd be very safe

Thanks!
Dev

 

[Aussy]

1. What's the advantage of buying 2 NAS devices to do NAS to NAS backup over the method above where I backup 1 NAS to an external hard drive? Why do I see this method recommended here vs. the NAS to external drive backup? For what it's worth I wouldn't be backing up from one NAS to another NAS offsite. I am not sure how I could do that given a typical cable modem connection at home.

The answer to this questions depends on your situation. IF you are using the NAS as the data repository(and not as the backup device) than you need to have a backup to the NAS. Either NAS to NAS or NAS to something else(Ie; External HDD).

NAS to NAS replication is good if the other NAS is located off site(another building, another state, etc) AND you have the bandwidth available to move the data OR you need your data to be highly available such that if one NAS crashes you can fail over to the other and be back in business quickly. Otherwise it is overkill and you are wasting your $$$ doing NAS replication.

From a "I want to keep my data safe" perspective(especially for the home user), THE NAS to external HDD is the better solution for three reasons. 1. Cost 2. The backup from NAS to external HDD will allow you to swap HDD periodically and put the HDD somewhere safe outside the home(garage, etc).
3. If the NAS ever crashes, you can attach the external HDD to a computer and have ready access to the data.

IF you are using the NAS as a backup device and all the original data resides on the computers, there is no reason to do either replication or copy the data to an external HDD.

As to why the NAS to NAS is recommended here?? My guess would be business users??? I certainly wouldn't spend the $$$ doing NAS to NAS for the home user. It is wayyyy overkill.

Hope this helps.

 

[thiggins]

1. What's the advantage of buying 2 NAS devices to do NAS to NAS backup over the method above where I backup 1 NAS to an external hard drive? Why do I see this method recommended here vs. the NAS to external drive backup? For what it's worth I wouldn't be backing up from one NAS to another NAS offsite. I am not sure how I could do that given a typical cable modem connection at home.

The main reason that I recommend a second NAS is that it provides both physical and electrical isolation from the main NAS. A second NAS can be located at another point in your home or office, providing some protection against theft, physical damage or corruption from accidental removal.

The electrical isolation issue is probably minor. The issue here is that a controller or P.S. failure could corrupt both the internal and external drives. The chance here may be remote, however.

Since the second NAS is already a network drive, all you need to do is switch over to using it. With an external drive, you'll need to connect it to a system and share it. Probably not a biggie for home use.

2. Maybe related to above, if I buy that Synology DS109 I understand that the hard drive will be formatted EXT3, correct? Does this mean that the external USB/ESATA hard drive I get must also be formatted as EXT3 to do backups to it from the NAS?

No. The external drive format can be independent of the internal. Synology supports read/write to external drives formatted both EXT3 and FAT32. But if you format FAT32, you won't be able to back up individual files over 4 GB.

2a. If my external/backup drive is formatted EXT3, how can I access it to read data if/when the NAS fails? I only have Macs running OS 10.5.X. What is this procedure like?

It can be done, but you'll need to use the command line. See this or Google for more.

Could I take the drive from the external enclosure and drop it into the NAS (provided it was just a drive failure in the NAS and not a failure in the controller or some other component)? I was thinking that would give me access to my files again over the network from my Macs.

No. The internal drive usually has part of the OS on it, which the external drive would not have.

As Aussy points out, if the NAS is serving as a backup for files on other machines, there is less of a requirement to backup the NAS itself. And choice of attached or networked drive is a matter of preference, convenience and "cost" (both $ and effort) of recovering the data.

If you do go with attached, I definitely recommend eSATA over USB. eSATA is 2X faster.

 

[dev]

Aussy, Thanks for the explanation. That was very helpful. Do you know anything about my EXT3 formatting questions (considering I only have Macs running at home - though I could score a PC in a pinch)?

 

[thiggins]

I think I answered all the EXT3 questions. Which one(s) did I not?

 

[dev]

Tim,

Thank you as well for the detailed explanations!

The separation of the 2 NAS's makes sense to me but I don't think I'll be able to pull that off in my home at the moment as my house isn't wired for ethernet anyway. So to get separation I'd have to have my NAS backup to the other NAS over wireless 802.11n. Perhaps that will work provided I can do incremental backups though. I do have backups going over wireless to my Time Capsule for Time Machine. Something for me to think about.

My NAS will be for primary file storage so redundancy is important for me. I have a Time Capsule backing up the computers I have.

FAT32 is a no-go for me too b/c I have media that is over 4GB in file size.

I'll plan to get eSATA if I go the external HDD route.

Thanks again!

 

[dev]

Just saw your message Tim. I posted my EXT question to Aussy right before I saw that you had followed up with a reply too. Thanks again guys!

 

[Aussy]

The separation of the 2 NAS's makes sense to me but I don't think I'll be able to pull that off in my home at the moment as my house isn't wired for ethernet anyway. So to get separation I'd have to have my NAS backup to the other NAS over wireless 802.11n. Perhaps that will work provided I can do incremental backups though. I do have backups going over wireless to my Time Capsule for Time Machine. Something for me to think about.

If you don't have huge amounts of data you can do what you need withe PowerLine Ethernet. This is a technology that uses the electrical wiring in your house to move data. Is is reliable and safe. I have successfully used this in home with wiring over 85 years old. It works and is solid. The downside is that the transfer rates are not the same as going over Cat-V wiring.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...5&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&Order=PRICE



My NAS will be for primary file storage so redundancy is important for me. I have a Time Capsule backing up the computers I have.

A NAS with External HDD for backup is probably your best best since you can take the HDD and store it somewhere else. Depending on where you live, your 3 most likely disaster scenerios are: 1. Device failure 2.Burglary 3.Fire. An external HDD that you swap regularly and store outside covers all three.

Good Luck.

 

[mamexp]

The separation of the 2 NAS's makes sense to me but I don't think I'll be able to pull that off in my home at the moment as my house isn't wired for ethernet anyway. So to get separation I'd have to have my NAS backup to the other NAS over wireless 802.11n. Perhaps that will work provided I can do incremental backups though. I do have backups going over wireless to my Time Capsule for Time Machine. Something for me to think about.

If you don't have huge amounts of data you can do what you need withe PowerLine Ethernet. This is a technology that uses the electrical wiring in your house to move data. Is is reliable and safe. I have successfully used this in home with wiring over 85 years old. It works and is solid. The downside is that the transfer rates are not the same as going over Cat-V wiring.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...5&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&Order=PRICE



My NAS will be for primary file storage so redundancy is important for me. I have a Time Capsule backing up the computers I have.

A NAS with External HDD for backup is probably your best best since you can take the HDD and store it somewhere else. Depending on where you live, your 3 most likely disaster scenerios are: 1. Device failure 2.Burglary 3.Fire. An external HDD that you swap regularly and store outside covers all three.

Good Luck.

I'm sorry for threadjacking. I just have a quick question about the powerline adapter. Which one did you get? and what is the actualy speed when you use it? I'm thinking to get the 85mbps ones for one of my HTPC.

Thanks

 

[batman333]

Technique for NAS to ext drive backup?

How does one backup from a NAS to external hard drive? Do you have to use a computer that's on the network? I'd love an automated solution that doesn't require any computers to be turned on.

 

[claykin]

How does one backup from a NAS to external hard drive? Do you have to use a computer that's on the network? I'd love an automated solution that doesn't require any computers to be turned on.

Most NAS solutions include a built-in share backup utility. No PC required. Some NAS devices handle share backup better than others. My preference is the way Netgear does it with the Readynas product line. Your mileage may vary.

 

[batman333]

Most NAS solutions include a built-in share backup utility. No PC required. Some NAS devices handle share backup better than others. My preference is the way Netgear does it with the Readynas product line. Your mileage may vary.

Thanks! I had assumed the built in solutions were for backing up a PC to NAS not NAS to other source.