Wi-Fi Signal Strength RT-AC86U v RT-AX88U

[Phil Outram]

I can't say as I blame you, ASUS has picked a terrible time for such a problem, given that most are now working from home.

Indeed, the sad thing is, which pretty much further underlines the fault, is that the signal from the RT-AX56U located outside in my shed is almost as strong in my living room than the RT-AX88U located in the same room.

 

[Ninko]

Indeed, the sad thing is, which pretty much further underlines the fault, is that the signal from the RT-AX56U located outside in my shed is almost as strong in my living room than the RT-AX88U located in the same room.

Funny you say that because I demoted my old RT-AC87U to an AP and even though I'm in the same room as the RT-AX88U, the RT-AC87U 2.4ghz signal is just as strong as the RT-AX88U signal!
That in my opinion is terrible, what kind of an "upgrade" is that.

 

[Kees17760]

Hi Guys,
I guess i'm in the same boat. I purchased an AX88U (A1.1) some 1 1/2 month ago and i've been having trouble with 2,4 Ghz performance ever since. To sum it up:
- 2 of my older clients can not connect anymore to FW versions > 384.14 or 30043846436 (SSID just doesn't show up)
- Very weak signal strength on FW versions > 384.14 or 30043846436
- Relative weak signal strength on FW versions < 384.14 or 30043846436
- disconnecting clients within 30 feet.
I have a Zyxel VGM 8324 router placed next to my ASUS and it outperforms the ASUS (on any FW version) in signal strength and keeping connections by far.
So far i've tried:
All of the available Asus's firmwares, all the way back to 30043844736.
Merlin's firmwares, back to RT-AX88U_384.11_2.
Did a series of tests with a Samsung S5 phone, Samsung Tab2 and a Lg-G4c phone. Given the choise, they all favour to connect to the Zyxel on 2,4 Ghz throughout the whole house.

The Asus's 5 Ghz performance on the other hand delivers excellent coverage and throuhput.

I'm very disappointed by the AX88U and at the point of returning it.

 

[Ninko]

I also found the 5 Ghz signal to be fine, this only seems to affect the 2.4 Ghz signal.
I'm also rather disappointed, expected better then this from this router!

 

[Phil Outram]

Hi Guys,
I guess i'm in the same boat. I purchased an AX88U (A1.1) some 1 1/2 month ago and i've been having trouble with 2,4 Ghz performance ever since. To sum it up:
- 2 of my older clients can not connect anymore to FW versions > 384.14 or 30043846436 (SSID just doesn't show up)
- Very weak signal strength on FW versions > 384.14 or 30043846436
- Relative weak signal strength on FW versions < 384.14 or 30043846436
- disconnecting clients within 30 feet.
I have a Zyxel VGM 8324 router placed next to my ASUS and it outperforms the ASUS (on any FW version) in signal strength and keeping connections by far.
So far i've tried:
All of the available Asus's firmwares, all the way back to 30043844736.
Merlin's firmwares, back to RT-AX88U_384.11_2.
Did a series of tests with a Samsung S5 phone, Samsung Tab2 and a Lg-G4c phone. Given the choise, they all favour to connect to the Zyxel on 2,4 Ghz throughout the whole house.

The Asus's 5 Ghz performance on the other hand delivers excellent coverage and throuhput.

I'm very disappointed by the AX88U and at the point of returning it.

Did you do a factory reset after flashing firmware 384.14? The driver update that caused the issue occurred during firmware 384.15 so I'm pretty sure that if you flash 384.14 followed by a full factory reset it should be fine.

 

[Kees17760]

Did you do a factory reset after flashing firmware 384.14? The driver update that caused the issue occurred during firmware 384.15 so I'm pretty sure that if you flash 384.14 followed by a full factory reset it should be fine.

Yes, i did do a factory reset after every flash and No, that didn't help. Changed channels too.

Forgot to mention that receive, when placed directly against the router is ~ -55 dB for the Tab2 and S5 and quickly falls to ~ -85 dB at 10 feet clear sight (Currently at 384.13)

IMO the 2,4 Ghz falls +/- 15 dB short at FW < 384.14, not to speak of versions above. They perform flat-out terrible.

 

[sturmstar]

As i wrote a few weeks ago already - we are talking here about significant differences in signal strength ... but I gave up to complain - because certain persons don't wanna hear about it obviously. Always getting the same answers about it's not possible to compare because bla bla bla...

I was perfectly happy with my AC68U - but I needed AX for two new devices - so I bought the AX88U. But signal strenght for all my other and older devices - namely on the 2,4ghz band were weaker than before...

What I did since - is - I use my 68U in AP-Mode for the 2,4ghz and for the "regular" 5ghz band - and the AX88U as AX 5ghz band and Guest lan on the 2,4ghz band (every single one on other channels - of course)

Since then - i'm good.

But just for comparision - we're not talking about a single dbi ... were talking HUGE differences

The picture below is one room further (conrete) from the two routers (same spot)

both are on merlin 384.16

compare the -37dbm (AC68U) to the -61db (AX88U) on 2,4ghz
and the -41dbm (AC68U) to the -56dbm (AX88U) on 5ghz

so... i know... different channels... different firmwares and so on... BUT... seriously?

just wanted to share my final observations... i'm happy with my solution - although I really would like to know why the newer routers are weaker in signal strengh than the AC68U.

best regards

 

[Frankflash]

signal strength and link speed has breen rubbish from the very first firmware you are write its very low

 

[octopus]

IF this is right figurs

compare the -37dbm (AC68U) to the -61db (AX88U) on 2,4ghz
and the -41dbm (AC68U) to the -56dbm (AX88U) on 5ghz

Then signal level is - 23db below. Only thing is power chip not working as is should.

When you mesure signal is chanel bandwith the same, eg 20/40/80/160 Mhz?

 

[sturmstar]

IF this is right figurs

compare the -37dbm (AC68U) to the -61db (AX88U) on 2,4ghz
and the -41dbm (AC68U) to the -56dbm (AX88U) on 5ghz

Then signal level is - 23db below. Only thing is power chip not working as is should.

When you mesure signal is chanel bandwith the same, eg 20/40/80/160 Mhz?

Go through the whole thread ... I bought the AX88U and at the time 384.14 was out. As in this thread said - it seems there was a significant drop from 384.13 to 384.14 in signal power - and only transmitting on one of the 4 antennas on the 2,4ghz... but it wasn't taken serious because the test environment was not ok (in their eyes)

and no - there is no hardware defect in my AX88U - I changed it two times.

Bandwith on the 2,4ghz is the same (20mhz), on the 5ghz it's 80 on the AC68 and 160mhz on the AX88U (the reason why I need it)

 

[L&LD]

@sturmstar, I'd be more interested to know the throughput on the different 2.4GHz band routers at the same distance on their optimum control channel (1, 6, or 11). With all other routers off during the comparison.

Having installed my fair share of RT-N66U's, RT-AC66U's, RT-AC56U's, RT-AC68U's, RT-AC3100's, RT-AC86U's and lately RT-AX88U's, over the last few years, I have only seen increases in real-world performance. Otherwise, I would not have been able to sell the newer routers.

I don't care about arbitrary things like signal strength or apps that measure such things either. Because I've found that that is not a good way to predict what will be a solid WiFi implementation or not.

Each router I've set up and installed has its own 2.4GHz and 5GHz band 'optimal' channel, depending on the environment it was placed in. When set to that control channel the newest routers have always performed better than what they replaced (and it could have been a different control channel or not on the older router).

I don't sell specs and dBm increases to customers. I sell them a router that makes their networks faster and has more coverage, overall. Regardless of what the cute but effectively useless 'apps' may suggest.

 

[Ninko]

@L&LD
Forgetting all the numbers as you have suggested, here's a real life example of the problem.

With my old RT-AC87U router my Ring Doorbell 2 reported a good connection and the audio and video playback was good.
Since installing the RT-AX88U my Ring Doorbell 2 now reports a poor connection and I now get the video and audio breaking up.
In both cases the doorbell and router was in the same place, on the same channel!

 

[L&LD]

@Ninko and had you taken the time to confirm that the 'same channel' was the optimal one for the new router?

Were the optimal position and orientation tested and acquired for the new router? Placing it 'where the old one was' isn't a good test of any kind. WiFi is peculiar like that.

What other old/obsolete assumptions were made between the years old RT-AC87U and the current AX model?

 

[sturmstar]

I'm beyond testing between different firmwares, channels, spots and antenna directions - like I said - I have my "workaround".

Like @Ninko said - it's not the numbers - but - just for example - on my back porch I CAN surf and stream with the 2,4ghz from my AC68U, the 2,4ghz band from the AX88U doesn't show even up... so, I'm exactly on this side - numbers are not my concern

@L&LD - Why should placing the router on the same spot be a bad "real life" test? this is exactly a "real life" test - my goal was to replace my 68U with the AX88U - this goal wasn't possible - simply because the range doesn't cover my whole appartement anymore - what do I care about dbms if everything is working - right - but it isn't working - so i DO care...

@L&LD - as for channels - right now only 1 and 6 is used but it doesn't mather if I swap them between the routers - and like postet above - i don't think that even the worst channel setting possible couldn't make this large difference in signal strenght

 

[Ninko]

@L&LD
All I can tell you is I've been testing this for weeks now, different channels, different settings, different positions, none of it made any difference. As opposed to my old RT-AC87U, which was great out of the box!

 

[sturmstar]

@sturmstar, I'd be more interested to know the throughput on the different 2.4GHz band routers at the same distance on their optimum control channel (1, 6, or 11). With all other routers off during the comparison.

Having installed my fair share of RT-N66U's, RT-AC66U's, RT-AC56U's, RT-AC68U's, RT-AC3100's, RT-AC86U's and lately RT-AX88U's, over the last few years, I have only seen increases in real-world performance. Otherwise, I would not have been able to sell the newer routers.

I don't care about arbitrary things like signal strength or apps that measure such things either. Because I've found that that is not a good way to predict what will be a solid WiFi implementation or not.

Each router I've set up and installed has its own 2.4GHz and 5GHz band 'optimal' channel, depending on the environment it was placed in. When set to that control channel the newest routers have always performed better than what they replaced (and it could have been a different control channel or not on the older router).

I don't sell specs and dBm increases to customers. I sell them a router that makes their networks faster and has more coverage, overall. Regardless of what the cute but effectively useless 'apps' may suggest.

my network IS fastser for my new AX200 devices... and I have tested also a AC86U a few months ago (because many sites are claiming the range is on of the best) but also the 86U was WEAKER in coverage than my good old 68U... maybe most of the people live in smaller appartements where it doesn't mather if the range is less... i don't know... during my testing with different routers I really was surprised and even more dissapointed that none of the newer models could beat this 7 year old router...

 

[L&LD]

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/a...details-in-the-description.55582/#post-472051

In almost every install I do, I see a marked difference between the 'worst' control channel vs. the 'best' one. Sometimes, these differences are 'huge'.

I also understand that not changing the location/orientation and the other aspects too (including SSID's, for example) seems more 'scientific'. But, who said implementing WiFi was a scientific process in the first place?

I either deliver actual networking improvements to my customers or I am told to leave (with the new equipment).

And yes, there have been some cases where the model they had the budget for didn't surpass the performance they already had (or at least, surpass it enough).

When a client device is a cause of an issue (like using the overloaded 1997 era 2.4GHz tech in 2020, for example) I don't fancy blaming the router as being a productive process. Even when a router from the same era (tech-wise) seems to work better with it (but gives a significantly worse performance in all other areas too).

Use what works for you in your unique environment. I do the same of course.

But I like to see the overall progress that is being made and capitalize on that. For myself and my customers.

 

[GHammer]

When a client device is a cause of an issue (like using the overloaded 1997 era 2.4GHz tech in 2020, for example) I don't fancy blaming the router as being a productive process.

Well, if only every single IoT maker would listen to you, I'd be happy.

In my world, every single 'Net Enabled' device from my irrigation system to my weather system to the air conditioner to multiple electric plugs require 2.4 band. If I had bought a new router and found that these devices didn't connect or had become flaky, I'd be putting the blame directly on the new router.

In my home I have limited discretion on the location of the router. It's going to be near the cable modem which is where the coax has been run. I'm not going to have coax dropped across the floor or tacked to the celling. Without knowing another location is going to make a significant improvement, I'm not going to pay an installer to run more coax.

I don't install routers for a living. I buy consumer oriented equipment and put it where I have power and connectivity. My past routers have all run the things I've asked them to run. You contend that is not enough, that I need to spend hours tweaking this and that to get juuust the right settings. Perhaps replace the devices I want to use with the router if needed.

I think not, I'd get a different router personally.

 

[L&LD]

There are no 'hours' tweaking things. Just a few key tests and going with what works best overall.

If anything I had required the highest 2.4GHz band performance, I would most likely be running two routers myself. Glad that I can decide and act to not have client devices that chain me to 1997.

Our unique perspectives are what make these forums so interesting to me. In the end, though, we all do what works and what we're capable of too.

In the past 9 years or so, my skill set has evolved greatly for these networking dilemmas. Because I question everything. And because I haven't really bought into the whole 'need' of a connected 'everything' world.

 

[Maghook]

I´m sorry, but from my POV this discussion doesn't lead anywhere and is already looping.
/rant on
Point of this topic is:

• Yes, there a happy users out there with their AX88U (out of the box). Mostly plug and play ones, average joes, no nerds. All good. Move on.
  
• And there are users who recently bought this power horse as a replacement upgrade for an older one that maybe is still in use. From these ones, some of them noticed that accurately replacing the old wireless solution with this shiny still relatively new premium AX88 would achieve them high 5 GHz band throughput and possibly also acceptable for 2.4 GHz, but some stationary clients would no longer get any or lose their wireless connections from time to time. And these clients are also important. So yes, numbers don't matter at all for these wireless clients. No wireless connection for you - no fun at all. WAF (S10E user) proved it in my case several times. Was no big deal over the years up to this new AX88U.

I'd be happy if only all my wireless clients (including these at the coverage/radio signal edge) could be reliably connected at all. These are the basics that my older AC68U and AC86U have repeatedly proven over time. My neighbor environment hadn't changed much in the meantime. Permanently monitoring neighboring AP situation. This AX88U has a much weaker 2,4Ghz signal radius compaired to the older N and AC-devices from ASUS and also seems to be very susceptible to cross channel interference with 2,4GHz which is also very unique for the AX88U. Playing around with wireless settings on newer 384.15+ doesn't change that at all.

So, I don't care about high throughput on a crowded 2,4Ghz band (fun fact: there is a 5GHz band exclusively dedicated for that and even better, 6E at the horizon) if only all of my wireless devices would at least be reliably with a 2G connection on board. And, I won't buy another mesh node to get there. But meanwhile I have strong doubts that ASUS will confirm and solve this (seems to be?) software issue. GT-AX 11000 uses same BCMs as the AX88U and some owners have also noticed this issue.
/rant off