Wifi 7 NICs questions

[Stardust]

Hello everyone.

If there is an M.2 Wifi 7 card that generally supports all hardware (Intel/AMD/Arm) and is 4x4, it is optimal.

If not, which network cards support all hardware and are 2x2?

If there is no 4x4 Wifi 7 card - why not?

Which M.2 is recommended?

Is there a link to a website with new/recommended cards?

Is it still an advantage to buy a 4x4 router for a 2x2 card?


Regards

 

[thiggins]

If there is no 4x4 Wifi 7 card - why not?

You generally will not see 4 stream clients and definitely not in M.2 form.
Power and space are at a premium in mobile devices, so 2 stream is the rule.

You might see a PCIe format card for desktops. But that usually is an M.2 card plugged into a PCIe adapter.

Intel is pretty much it for M.2 Wi-Fi cards. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/details/wireless/wi-fi-7-series/products.html

 

[Stardust]

Thanks @thiggins

Now I am in no hurry to buy NICs and/or router.

Later - maybe 2025 - I will buy router as minimum.

 

[RMerlin]

There are USB options available. Wifi 7 won`t saturate USB 3, so the bandwidth will be sufficient.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Hello everyone.

If there is an M.2 Wifi 7 card that generally supports all hardware (Intel/AMD/Arm) and is 4x4, it is optimal.

No, at least not Arm.
For consumers there are three different options today, Intel as mentioned, Qualcomm and MediaTek.
Intel BE200/BE202
Qualcomm QCNCM865 (QCA FastConnect 7800/7900)
MediaTek MT7927/MT7925 (Filogic something or the other, also re-branded by AMD)

These are are 2x2 and support either 320 or 160 MHz wide channel width and the QAM (quadrature amplitude modulation) can also differ between the various SKUs, so check the specs before buying.

If not, which network cards support all hardware and are 2x2?

None of the above supports all hardware, simply because you need different drivers for Arm compared to x64 PCs. However, as long as you get the PCIe version of one of the above, it should work with Intel or AMD systems. Note that Intel also has CNVio2 cards, which only work with Intel hardware, so avoid those.

If there is no 4x4 Wifi 7 card - why not?

There are, but they're intended for routers and there are at least as far as I'm aware, no desktop drivers for them.
This is an example of such modules.

4x4 WiFi 7 6GHz Single Band Module | Compex Webshop

QCN6274/9274 WiFi 7 (802.11be) 4×4 MU-MIMO 6GHz Single Band Module

shop.compex.com.sg

Which M.2 is recommended?

M.2 2230 sized cards is the standard used on most computers today and it's the only ones you can swap yourself, as the M.2 1620 are solder down modules. The 4x4 router cards are usually not following the standard M.2 form factors.
Note that most WiFi cards use the M.2 A/E pin-out and thus won't fit in the M.2 slots for NVMe drives, as the A/E slots also support USB and some other interfaces that are used for the built in Bluetooth features.

Is there a link to a website with new/recommended cards?

I haven't even seen any comparisons between the different options on the market, so I'd say that's a no.

Is it still an advantage to buy a 4x4 router for a 2x2 card?

Yes, if you connect multiple devices to the router, as at least in theory, two 2x2 devices can then get their own 2x2 link to the router. If that always works in reality, is a different matter. Some of this is about compatibility between different brands of hardware.

 

[Stardust]

Thanks to all above for answers. Need to buy NICs that is not for Intel-only hardware. Will now look for both USB and M.2

 

[TheLostSwede]

Thanks to all above for answers. Need to buy NICs that is not for Intel-only hardware. Will now look for both USB and M.2

Seems like the Qualcomm is the most likely candidate to work with Arm as someone has made a Linux driver for it.

[GUIDE] Successful Wi-Fi 7 (802.11be) on Framework 13 AMD with Qualcomm QCNCM865 and Arch Linux

Hello Framework Forum, Just wanna share my successful experience with Wi-Fi 7 (802.11be) on the Framework 13 AMD laptop running Arch Linux, powered by the Qualcomm QCNCM865 card. This achievement has been made possible by utilizing the ath12k driver. This card feat the FastConnect 7800, which...

community.frame.work

 

[thiggins]

At least according to Dong, the Qualcomm M.2 card is available only bundled with a PCIe desktop adapter.

Qualcomm NCM865: Solid Wi-Fi 7 Upgrade | Dong Knows Tech

The Qualcomm NCM865 would make an easy Wi-Fi 7 upgrade for any Windows 11 computer if it were more readily avaible. Check it out today!

dongknows.com

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CVJPCQFJ/?tag=snbforums-20

And yes, only 2 streams.

 

[tgl]

Yes, if you connect multiple devices to the router, as at least in theory, two 2x2 devices can then get their own 2x2 link to the router. If that always works in reality, is a different matter.

That works if the 4x4 router and both 2x2 clients support "MU-MIMO" operation. Sadly, even though that feature has been in the wifi standards for awhile, almost no clients support it. (For example, exactly no Apple devices do, last I checked.) There's really zero motivation for client-device makers to support it, because it doesn't pad their specs any.

 

[TheLostSwede]

That works if the 4x4 router and both 2x2 clients support "MU-MIMO" operation. Sadly, even though that feature has been in the wifi standards for awhile, almost no clients support it. (For example, exactly no Apple devices do, last I checked.) There's really zero motivation for client-device makers to support it, because it doesn't pad their specs any.

Amazingly, the world doesn't revolve around Apple and their "unique" solutions. Android, Windows and Linux handles MU-MIMO just fine.

 

[tgl]

Amazingly, the world doesn't revolve around Apple and their "unique" solutions. Android, Windows and Linux handles MU-MIMO just fine.

My point was that hardware that supports it is hard to come by. Listing software systems that would be able to use such hardware is not a refutation.

 

[Tech9]

I've never seen 2x2 MU-MIMO with any client. Where 1x1 is supported and works - no much point of it. The reason Apple doesn't even bother.

 

[TheLostSwede]

My point was that hardware that supports it is hard to come by. Listing software systems that would be able to use such hardware is not a refutation.

It's not though as all modern hardware supports it. Maybe try something that isn't crapple?

There are at least three generations of WiFi chips from Intel that supports it, as per below.

Intel® Wi-Fi 7 BE202 - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Wi-Fi 7 BE202 quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

www.intel.com

Intel® Wi-Fi 6E AX210 (Gig+) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Wi-Fi 6E AX210 (Gig+) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

www.intel.com

Intel® Wi-Fi 6 AX201 (Gig+) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Wi-Fi 6 AX201 (Gig+) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

www.intel.com

 

[portets]

That works if the 4x4 router and both 2x2 clients support "MU-MIMO" operation. Sadly, even though that feature has been in the wifi standards for awhile, almost no clients support it. (For example, exactly no Apple devices do, last I checked.) There's really zero motivation for client-device makers to support it, because it doesn't pad their specs any.

I didn't know this. So say my 4x4 router and 2x2 laptop support MU-MIMO, but my 2x2 phone does not, then there is zero benefit to my router being 4x4 in this situation?(aside from better SNR with 4x4 routers)

Having trouble finding if the Pixel 8 or Pixel 9 support MU-MIMO. My RT-BE88U has it enabled and my BE200 laptop supports it.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Having trouble finding if the Pixel 8 or Pixel 9 support MU-MIMO. My RT-BE88U has it enabled and my BE200 laptop supports it.

This is the WiFi chip in the Pixel 8 series. I would very much say it's supported and I doubt the 9 wouldn't support it if the 8 does. The 9 also supports MLO.

 

[tiddlywink]

..

 

[sfx2000]

[Banana BPI-R4] Wifi7 status

BE200 As in the thread. Not working with Banana Pi BPI-R4 board. It is an Intel familly so we cannot expect here AP mode. WCN7851/QCNCM865 As in the thread. Not working with Banana Pi BPI-R4 board as probably we hit the pci bug for ath12k module. MT7925/MT7927 Based on...

forum.openwrt.org

May be of interest to those here. Testing wifi 7 m.2 on filogic 880 board with linux.

Mediatek, while awesome, is rarely a benchmark - more of a fast follower - which is wise, what features generally work and what features can be put into the next-rev/not doing pile...

 

[sfx2000]

Amazingly, the world doesn't revolve around Apple and their "unique" solutions. Android, Windows and Linux handles MU-MIMO just fine.

Just interesting that Apple choses to do the optional features - they did this with 11ac/11ax, and they'll likely do it for 11be

It's a pragmatic approach perhaps - as we all know, the client pushes the association request, not the AP

That being said - they're pretty conservative, as they have to do interop with pretty much every AP vendor/chipset vendor out there, esp now since they closed down their Airport business...

 

[TheLostSwede]

Just interesting that Apple choses to do the optional features - they did this with 11ac/11ax, and they'll likely do it for 11be

It's a pragmatic approach perhaps - as we all know, the client pushes the association request, not the AP

That being said - they're pretty conservative, as they have to do interop with pretty much every AP vendor/chipset vendor out there, esp now since they closed down their Airport business...

Apple doesn't make their own WiFi chips afaik, at least in the past, they've used Broadcom based solutions. There were rumours about Apple stopping development of their own WiFi solutions. There are also rumours about Apple having their own solution sometime in 2025. Who knows what'll happen, so many rumours, but for now, it's not their own hardware.

As far as the interop stuff, to get the WiFi Alliance certification, you have to do interop. Unfortunately it seems like some companies do that better than others, as we know...

 

[sfx2000]

Apple doesn't make their own WiFi chips afaik, at least in the past, they've used Broadcom based solutions. There were rumours about Apple stopping development of their own WiFi solutions. There are also rumours about Apple having their own solution sometime in 2025. Who knows what'll happen, so many rumours, but for now, it's not their own hardware.

Yes, although they have used both Marvell and Atheros back in the day...

Apple writes their own drivers and firmware for the Broadcom chips they use - mostly because of ioKit and needs for CoreWiFi along with all of their airplay/carplay stuff...

Much like Intel and AMD/nVidia graphics - Apple writes the drivers