AC86U replacement: RT-AX86U (Pro) or GT-AX6000?

[RMinNJ]

. AX86S is more or less the best performer out of the lot of new models I've messed with.. including two separate GT-AX6000.

Seems to be a matter of EE design of the "lite" S model and or the 86U has alternative 5G Skyworks amplifiers.. Maybe even Radio tolerance? No clue.

So odd.. the 86S is missing the 2.5 port circuitry so that makes it better for you for some reason?

I had an AX86U and now the GT-AX6000. I noticed very little difference beween them.. The GT-AX6000 is maybe a tad better in the far bedroom. I've used only stock ASUS firmware (latest 388).
I have a small simple setup though. I finally upgraded the wifi card in my laptop to an AX210 and it
nicely speed tests at 920Mbit/sec (1G) on ookla speedtest.. 20ft.. upstairs from the GT-AX6000...that is with a 1200 link rate, 80Mhz channel..

 

[jsz]

So odd.. the 86S is missing the 2.5 port circuitry so that makes it better for you for some reason?

I had an AX86U and now the GT-AX6000. I noticed very little difference beween them.. The GT-AX6000 is maybe a tad better in the far bedroom. I've used only stock ASUS firmware (latest 388).
I have a small simple setup though. I finally upgraded the wifi card in my laptop to an AX210 and it
nicely speed tests at 920Mbit/sec (1G) on ookla speedtest.. 20ft.. upstairs from the GT-AX6000...that is with a 1200 link rate, 80Mhz channel..

I don't know.

The EE design is slightly different and uses a BCM4906 (dual core 1.8ghz A53) instead of the BCM4908 (Quad core 1.8ghz a53) as a main CPU.

Like I mentioned, the main CPU shouldn't really be impacting "basic performance" as it isn't being offloaded to A53 with light load or a simple speed test (BCM43684 Radio SoC handles this unless it needs to tap into A53).

The larger main chip could be causing EMI, though.. Uses a completely different power adapter as well. 19v2.37a vs 12v3a on AX86S.

It's not a 100% identical layout, but close enough to where you would think things wouldn't be impacted, granted.. there is a different assortment of possible amplifiers for both AX86S/U per FCC certification/photos. Even though they all claim hardware R1.0.

It's possible I have different/subjectively better 5G FEM's, but I think theres something else going on, even if we factor hardware tolerances between units. (I wouldn't imagine over a 10% difference, maybe I'm wrong).

The 2.5G port on the AX86U is driven via Realtek RTL8221B(I)-VB-CG (Newer option) or Broadcom BCM54991ELB0KFEBG (original option from 2020 release). Switching 1G native (4908 driven) to the 2.5G transceiver doesn't improve or net different WIFI results on what my specific sample has inside.

Whatever the case, the AX86S is/was my best "AX" performer so far. The 2 GT-AX6000 I've tried seem to be in the same ballpark if not a little better than this AX86U at around 30FT distance (fixed wifi card), so at least thats generally consistent.

​

I bought AX86S as something to mess around with after being disapointed with my first GT-AX6000 relative to my GT-AC2900 (special AC86U)... I didn't expect it to end up as the superior unit (WIFI range, at least subjectively for my home)... The RAM is pretty much saturated with out of box settings.. 400/512mb.

Thats the only thing that bothers me... Wish it had 1GB config.

 

[L&LD]

Sounds like a case of Asus shifting chips to the newer models and maybe intentionally(?) killing off the older model with this worse performance. I'd expect huge discounts coming then for those models in 2023.

In my experience, every RT-AX86U I have bought for customers has the same 45W adaptor and performance is superior to everything it's compared to (except the GT-AX6000). Maybe these chip-substituted models will be filtering globally soon.

 

[Tech9]

I didn't expect it to end up as the superior unit (WIFI range, at least subjectively for my home)

Not surprised.

Asus rt-ax86u 5ghz band crashing with new firmware when downloading

It is time this thread was closed - there are clearly genuine issues being experienced by many RT-AX86U owners which can't simply be fobbed off as user errors. However - no useful purpose is served by perpetuating these discussions [they clearly irritate the Developer since they are closed...

www.snbforums.com

[ALPHA] 386.9_alpha1 for WiFi 5 (802.11ac) Models (GT-AC2900, RT-AC68U, and RT-AC86U)

Thank you for the good intentions, but get ready for questions "is latest CVE-xxxx included" and "when is feature X coming"... as usual. That would not be anything new, I get these even for models I provide more frequent update to...

www.snbforums.com

Hopefully you find a good firmware for your AX86S.

 

[Clark Griswald]

The GT-AX6000 is maybe a tad better in the far bedroom.

Contact Marketing, We've Got A New Sticker For The Box!

I have had zero issues in my environment with GT-AX6000, and pleased with the upgrade from an AC86 (which also has zero issues).

 

[jsz]

Sounds like a case of Asus shifting chips to the newer models and maybe intentionally(?) killing off the older model with this worse performance. I'd expect huge discounts coming then for those models in 2023.

In my experience, every RT-AX86U I have bought for customers has the same 45W adaptor and performance is superior to everything it's compared to (except the GT-AX6000). Maybe these chip-substituted models will be filtering globally soon.

Thats the thing, the WIFI performance in my environment is closer to the GT-AX6000's I've had here. There was a slight edge to those units relative to this AX86U... Which is your general experience?

The AX86S is consistently pushing over 75-100mbps higher in same testing condition.. Same distance, same manual control/auto channel etc

Even if the FEM's were the alternative Skyworks model, it shouldn't be that significant. Theres a tolerance factor, but I don't expect it to be that big.

Only other thing that makes sense is EMI and the higher end hardware config dealing with power fluctuations. The AX86S runs on a 36W plug relatively speaking.

I don't mind not having a 2.5G port, or weaker dual core A53.. but the RAM bottleneck is annoying.

 

[L&LD]

RAM is, was, and will always be too important to skimp on, even if the lessor hardware is currently faster.

With many RT-AX86Us installed over the past 2 years, the performance is best in class of all other Asus routers I've used/setup. Except for the GT-AX6000 which consistently gives ~20% better throughput to the same clients at the same distance (walls, floors, and other obstacles). While keeping the latency as low as I've ever had too.

I don't run any networks with auto control channels. I test and find which control channel is optimized for the specific router, clients, and wireless environment (each and every time). As I have mentioned elsewhere, I tune the networks for maximum responsiveness, not necessarily maximum download speeds.

In my case, even if I were to test an 's' model and find it faster, I would not keep it (because of the inadequate RAM). If we're talking about a 1Gbps ISP connection, that 7 to 10% faster speed is not worth trading for a product that will be useful for a much longer time.

I'll repeat it again, particularly here at the end of 2022. We need routers with minimal 4GB of dual channel RAM (and/or, upgradeable RAM). We also need a removable m.2 SSD slot. In addition to a real CPU (and not these obsolete hand held device versions). The expected prices in 2023 warrant this level of hardware. Hoping (after 10 long years), we'll begin to see these long needed upgrades, soon.

 

[Spartan]

Sort of glad I retested all the models. Maybe I have "golden" GT-AC2900 and AX86S samples.. No clue.

You won the silicon lottery!

 

[jsz]

RAM is, was, and will always be too important to skimp on, even if the lessor hardware is currently faster.

With many RT-AX86Us installed over the past 2 years, the performance is best in class of all other Asus routers I've used/setup. Except for the GT-AX6000 which consistently gives ~20% better throughput to the same clients at the same distance (walls, floors, and other obstacles). While keeping the latency as low as I've ever had too.

I don't run any networks with auto control channels. I test and find which control channel is optimized for the specific router, clients, and wireless environment (each and every time). As I have mentioned elsewhere, I tune the networks for maximum responsiveness, not necessarily maximum download speeds.

In my case, even if I were to test an 's' model and find it faster, I would not keep it (because of the inadequate RAM). If we're talking about a 1Gbps ISP connection, that 7 to 10% faster speed is not worth trading for a product that will be useful for a much longer time.

I'll repeat it again, particularly here at the end of 2022. We need routers with minimal 4GB of dual channel RAM (and/or, upgradeable RAM). We also need a removable m.2 SSD slot. In addition to a real CPU (and not these obsolete hand held device versions). The expected prices in 2023 warrant this level of hardware. Hoping (after 10 long years), we'll begin to see these long needed upgrades, soon.

Brands skimping on specs is an intentional method to upsell newer or higher end hardware as time goes on.

I don't know about 4GB, but current base hardware should be at least 1GB given how much RAM ASUSWRT 388 consumes out of box.. especially on newer SoC variants like XT9/GT6/AXE7800 which are also stuck on 512mb, albeit DDR4 vs DDR3 in the AX86S.

I don't know if theres more optimization/lack of features on alt models.

From my perspective, it really seems like a local EMI issue via higher end hardware, though we'll never know given the intricacies of WIFI. my2c.

 

[jsz]

Update: I swapped antennas with the set from my AX86S and performance is now closer inline.. I can't tell you why the "newer" set of antennas performs worse on AX86U.

Was also able to swap them (AX86S antenna set) to the GT-AC2900 and gained 50-60 MBPS over previous testing with original GT-AC2900 set. Odd...

 

[XIII]

I'm not sure yet, but I might try AiMesh, with the GT-AX6000 as router.

Does it make any sense to use the AC86U as a node?

Or should I only use AX nodes? What ASUS product would be good as a node?

 

[RMinNJ]

AX86S antennas for the win.

 

[Clark Griswald]

@XIII
I don't have enough newer devices to justify another AX router/AP.
I'm going to swap my AC88 for my AC86 as my AP. No issues experienced in my current setup. My only concern is having the updated hw of the AC86 over the 88.

 

[maghuro]

Buy the GT-AX6000.

AiMesh HW combination?

Hi! I am about to replace my old Netgear router + mesh extender, starting to get more and more unreliable. And after doing some reading I will probably end up buying Asus. I am not any good at all on networking, but read some postes on this forum to have a better understanding. So I most...

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Dear friend,

Any real use scenario comparison between gt-ax6000 and rt-ax86u PRO? Regarding for example wall penetration and coverage distance?

Both are right now at the same price in my country and I want to update my good old rt-ac86u pro. And I can't decide my mind in which to buy!

 

[L&LD]

Not that I recall immediately.

But the GT-AX6000 is the better hardware-balanced router today. Proven. And has been earmarked to get the 3.0.0.6.xxx level firmware in the near future too (just like the 'pro').

The GT-AX6000 has 4x4:4 RF paths for both 2.4GHz and 5GHz. And it has the additional 2.5GbE Port too.

Nothing I have read would make me choose the 'pro' over the GT-AX6000 today.

Even at the same price, the GT-AX6000 is the better bang for the buck product. I wouldn't buy the 'pro' even at a $100+ discount over the much better GT-AX6000.

Don't fall for mere marketing hype. We're buying hardware here. Pair that with superior and 'proven' hardware (for the GT-AX6000), and that 'pro' designation is mere clickbait for your wallet, for those buying with their eyes open.

Even Asus gives you a bit of a hint where they fall in their product stack: AX5700 ultimate AX performance: 861+4804 Mbps for the 'pro', and AX6000 ultimate AX performance for the GT model.

RT-AX86U Pro - Tech Specs｜WiFi Routers｜ASUS Global

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ROG Rapture GT-AX6000 | ROG Rapture GT-AX6000 | Gaming Routers｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG USA

Dual-Band WiFi 6 Gaming Router, Dual 2.5G WAN/LAN ports, enhanced hardware, WAN aggregation, VPN Fusion, Triple-Level Game Acceleration, free network security and Mesh WiFi System

rog.asus.com

 

[Tech9]

Any real use scenario comparison between gt-ax6000 and rt-ax86u PRO?

A few folks around have or had both. They report very similar Wi-Fi performance*. The two routers are almost identical hardware.

I would pick RT-AX86U Pro as RT-AC86U replacement because of the similar compact size. GT-AX6000 is ridiculously big and ugly looking.

* - the routers sold in Europe have limited to 200mW lower channels Tx output. Opinions from North Americans user may not be valid for you. Canada has similar limitation, but in the US the allowed Tx power is up to 1000mW. House consruction materials in Europe and North America are very different too. Your range will be perhaps much shorter as a result. Expect similar to what you see from your current RT-AC86U. Good luck.

 

[Clark Griswald]

Both @L&LD @Tech9 make strong points both routers are "similar" (the pro has identical footprint of AC86), but if you remove the reviews regarding the 6000 appearance you will discover many happy 6000 owners (see sig).
At this time, I would wait until the new routers are released (Forum Link), then the price of these current AX routers will decrease significantly, because nobody wants yesterday's tech, when the box on the new router states it's Faster and More Powerful

 

[Tech9]

nobody wants yesterday's tech

This new tech is perhaps draft specifications and with users as beta testers as usual. I would wait longer than first release.

 

[maghuro]

Thank you all for your detailed and helpful help (sorry for the redundancy).

Because I do not really care about the looks (it's in the top of a shelf out of sight), I've chosen the gt-ax6000 for what I've read.
I've found it a couple of euros less than the ax-86u also. Thanks once again!


Anyway to bypass the tx output?

 

[ColinTaylor]

Anyway to bypass the tx output?

No. But in the EU channels 100 to 140 have more output power than 36 to 64 so try using those.