Attempting very first wireless connection to existing network

[Mediaman]

Not doing very well here.

I absolutely knew this was goiig to happen... I read everything i could including spceific tips on this topic, made all my preperations, took care about using WAN vs LAN ports, avoiding conflicts with other routers, read the well documented instructions. etc - did all my homework- I STILL end up wasting hours and fricken hours of time I cannot affort to waste. With nothing working. Absolutely frustrating.

I am in a visous circle right now.

OK. have a perfectly working wired network.
Went onto one of my many desktop machines
Trying to add a new TRendnet TEW 452BRP for use as my first wireless access point
Thought the gist was to esentially access the new router, disable DHCP service, ensure it has a different IP address, etc.

Things were going fine.

-Installed the router per instructions
-complete install
-accessed the router pages
-made the requied changes.

Things appeared to remain fine. but I can NEVER EVER EVER EVER get back into the admin setup (ie open a browser and go to 192.168.1.1)

(I didnt even turn on my laptop at this point- to see if I could access the AP... still at the stage of getting the router settings correct).

So I tried to reinstall....and it complaiedn it doesnt recognize the router anymore! It complains I have a wrong firmwar version or that maybe I am connected to the wrong ports. None of these things apply.

What I must to now is a hard reest on the router and start over again. But of course I get the same results.

As I am not in a viscous cirle, the white flag it our for help. I hate this nighmares. I should not have to be like this.

And now, even a reset doesnt help!

My idiot of a neighbor ( I wonder now who is the idiot here) set his up in 5 minutes. Of course it is totally unsecured.

When I fianlly did fire up my laptop, I can connect to HIS connection, and even get into HIS admin page for HIS router!!!! But not my own.

During the time, when I had the laptop on, I did notice my own AP connection listed there!. but it would not let me connect ( it was not a password thing....it sinply said windows does not recognize etc..

ARRGGHHH

Lastt time I was in my vicous circle, I changed my password...it reset and brought me back to the admin pages...Then i wanted to set some security. It did, but after that I could never get back in.

Theres are settings for
DHCP server enable/disable -disabled
DHCP client enable/disable - tried both settings
AP enable disable - enabled

Main question for now ( as I appreciate its hard to get help one this)...when I attempt to access the router admin table, how should the router be wired, ie

- normal mode with nothing on WAN ports, with computer and internet cables only on LAN ports?
- internet cable to WANport and computer to LAN port?
- no internet - computer to WAN port only?
- no internet - computer to LAN port only?

I am at my wits end now, so need to chill. I bought other APs as well so I may just throw this one out and try another.

Terrrible weeknd so far!

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Things appeared to remain fine. but I can NEVER EVER EVER EVER get back into the admin setup (ie open a browser and go to 192.168.1.1)

I wonder if you're tripping over this step? When you change the LAN IP address of your wireless router....you make it in the same range as your primary router, but of course a different IP address. Say you primary router is 192.168.1.1, and you purchase a wireless router which you wish to flip to an access point, and it comes defaulted to 192.168.1.1...that won't work, so you want to change it to something in the same IP range (192.168.1.XXX)....so pick a standard access point IP, such as 192.168.1.245 or 192.168.1.254.

Once changed...uplink it to your primary router using a LAN port on each. Depending on your routers..you may, or may not, need a crossover cable (although these days with most switch ports being MDI-X....crossover cables have pretty much become extinct). You'll see link lights or not..to know it's working. If one of your routers has MDI-X ports...you're golden.

You access it using that NEW IP address that you assigned it. (such as 192.168.1.245). No longer 192.168.1.1. ...as that's probably your primary router.

 

[Mediaman]

Many thanks..

I'll try anything!

So they sell a router with the default guaranteed not to work! Wonderful, It not complicated enough!

I thought 192.168.1.1 WAS in the range of 192.168.1.XXX)....but my brain is so fried now nothing makes sense anymore.

I've tried bypassing my main router as well, but that didnt help. When I do get in next it wants to know:
- IP address for router
- IP start adddress
- IP end address

.....not be be confused with IP address of the desktop used to setp the routner ( something like 192.168.0.7)

So I use something like :

- IP address for router
192.168.1.235??

- IP start adddress
192.168.1.225??

- IP end address
192.168.1.255??

Amyway, still trying to get back in. Been at this 4 hours now. wont be
able to take much more. If this doesnt work, I will take a break, put this router in a drawer and open up a new box and try again.

Thanks again for some tips....hopefully I can catch you later!

 

[Mediaman]

okay, I ahve access to the admin pages now ( but as soon as I save them I will likey not be able to get back in without a hard reset

DHCP clinet - should it be enabled or disabled??

 

[Mediaman]

Right now it says

DHCP Client = Disabled << correct???
IP address = 192.168.1.250
Subnet mask - 255.255.255.0

DHCP server disabled
Stat IP = 192.168.1.100
End IP = 192.168.1.199

WAN connection Type = DCHP Client or fixeds IP
Wireless = enabled
AP= Enabled
Secuirty = WPA2 PSK tkip

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

You can leave the WAN type to "obtain auto"..that's usually not a problem.

Start with security disabled...get clients functioning on it..once they can hit the internet..go in and introduce wireless security..such as WPA.

 

[Mediaman]

OK, working bliind here.

My AP actaully works...laptop can see it, and can connect to it.

While that would appear to be all well and good, I cannot access the admin pages. The connection is unsecured. (Last set of changes did not get saved).

I've tried 192.168.1.1 and any other combinations I tried.

So my only option left is to turn it off, and await some response to waht the setting are supposed to be for

DHCP Client = Disabled << correct???
IP address = 192.168.1.250
Subnet mask - 255.255.255.0

DHCP server disabled
Stat IP = 192.168.1.100
End IP = 192.168.1.199

WAN connection Type = DCHP Client or fixeds IP
Wireless = enabled
AP= Enabled
Secuirty = WPA2 PSK tkip


.and then to another hard reset and try again

Hour # 5.

 

[Mediaman]

Status 11:05 am

a) restored to factory defaults
b) ran intalll off CD
c) ran wizard off admin
d) left IPaddresses per default
e) set to AP mode
f) DHCP server and client set themselves to disabled
g) WAP2 set ( didnt see earlier suggestion)
h) all cables on LAN ports

Laptop sees connection and it is now secured. So I guess IP addresses are OK.

Still not working though as:

1)l cannot access admin pages (perhaps due to DHCP client disable?

2) secured password not working (windows complains is wrong length)

Next step.....reset once gain, this time no security...

 

[thiggins]

e) set to AP mode

Where are you seeing that setting? I don't see it in the manual.
What are the other options?

Also, what is the IP address of the computer that you are doing all of this from?

And what is the DHCP range of your main router?

 

[Mediaman]

To keep terminology clean

I have
-the MAIN router for my wired network
-the AP router for the first wireless access point I am tryig to establish
-the SPARE desktop I am using to config the router, and
-the LAPTOP I am using to test the connection.

What is the DHCP range of your main router?
On the MAIN router.
-the DCHP range of this router is 195.168.0.2 to 192.168.0.100
-the LAN port on the router has an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and an IP subnet mask of 255.255.255.0

Wt is the IP address of the computer that you are doing all of this from?
On the SPARE machine, ipconfig rerots its own current IP address as 192.168.0.7 (which makes snese) and reports the default gateway as 192.168.0.1

On the AP router:
On this router, which I cant get into now, its default IP address, which I felt as is, is 192.168.1.1 and its default DCHP server (which if off) is , if I recall, 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.199

Where are you seeing that setting? I don't see it in the manual.
What are the other options?
My comment re the AP setting is on the left menu menu choices, under Wireless , where it says something like:
-Wireless enable/disable
-AP enable/disable

 

[thiggins]

What is the DHCP range of your main router?
On the MAIN router.
-the DCHP range of this router is 195.168.0.2 to 192.168.0.100
-the LAN port on the router has an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and an IP subnet mask of 255.255.255.0

There is your problem. It appears that you skipped Step 3 in How To Convert a Wireless Router into an Access Point , i.e.
Find your LAN Router's DHCP server range.

Everything on your LAN needs to be in the IP range that is established by your main router's DHCP server. In your case that is 192.168.0.X. By setting your AP to 192.168.1.X you are setting it to a different subnet.

You can't reach it because you would need to set a static route to tell your computer how to reach that subnet.

The solution is to set the AP to an address outside the DHCP range of your main router. Since that is 192.168.0.2 to 192.168.0.100, I suggest using 192.168.0.254 for the AP's LAN address.

Where are you seeing that setting? I don't see it in the manual.
What are the other options?
My comment re the AP setting is on the ket menu menu choices, under Wireless , where it says something like:
-Wireless enable/disable
-AP enable/disable

I don't see that AP enable option in the TEW-452BRP manual. If a router has an "AP" option, it is usually a built-in way to do what you are trying to do manually, i.e. use the wireless router as an AP. So we don't work at cross-purposes, DISABLE that "AP" option.

 

[Mediaman]

P.S. The only way I can get back to the admin pages is a hard reset and a reintall

When I do that, I can get it all working (as confirmed by LAPTOP), but its unsecured...and I can then NOT get back in!

If I repeat the whole process again, and use WPA2, it appears to take it, but when i get the password prompt on the LAPTOP, the router does not accept it. And again, cannot get back in/

Basically, whenever I save something on an admin page ( other than a passorf or SSID or hostname), it wont let me back in.

So, hopefully it 'is' messed up IP addresses.....but I do not know what to try next.

===
OK just read your response....
===

 

[thiggins]

When I do that, I can get it all working (as confirmed by LAPTOP), but its unsecured...and I can then NOT get back in!

Are you saying that you already have tried what I suggested and it didn't work?

 

[Mediaman]

Are you saying that you already have tried what I suggested and it didn't work?

If what you adivse doesnt work, we are all in big trouble....no.... what I meant had just spotted it and will try it....

Okay, I tired it, and yes , that was a major piece of it ( I will comment later on why I missed it). I changed it to 192.168.0.251, for router1, to allow for 252, 253 etc for future access points. So YAY, I now can finally and consistently get into the admin page. Lesson learned. So almost there!

Status now is that :

a) laptop can see the router and connect - but no security

b) I changed the security to WPA2 (and at first did not use a 5 or 13 character pass key). LAPTOP saw the router as secure, and windows recognizes I used a bad pass key, and give me the correct error message about the character length. So I changed the pass key to 13 characters, rebooted, and now the laptop see the rotuer as secure, accepts the passkey but just sits ther eat "Waiting for network..."

I thought perhaps this is becuase of that AP enable/disable options. See screen shot. But it has no affect even if enabled.

Is it a case of the LAPTOP network card not being WPA2 capable??? Its an Intel Pro 2200BG running on Win XP.

 

[Mediaman]

STATUS AS OF 4:30p, ; EXHAUSTED BUT GOOD.

NIC drivers re WPA2 – It was the drivers. Some google searches suggested that Version 8 and above ofthe IntelPro 2200 BG NIC supports WPA2 ; I had Version 9 so the thought I was okay, but I downloaded version 11 from the Dell site. Now it works fine.

G vs Super G.I see I have a few Super G options on the Trendnet router (see screenshot). Does the 2002 support anything higher than 54 Mbps? Again, getting mixed answers from google searches. I could not find any setting for it other than “Throughput Enhancement” which is already enabled. I guess if I want anything faster I need look for a replacement mini-PCI card.

SSID Broadcast– I have about 8 neighbouring networks. I see they broadcast their SSID. Thought I should disable broadcasting for security. When I do that, it does show “SSID Not Broadcast” which is good….but if I right click, I see the ful MAC address. (just like I do on my neighbors). So what exactly is the point of not broadcasting an SSID?
Channel # I also noted that all my neiggbors have Channel 6 selected as it’s a default. So I changed mine to Channel 8, assuming that matters!

IP addresses. Okay, so yes, I did read that the AP needs ti to an address OUTSIDE the DHCP range of your main router. Since that range is 192.168.0.2 to 192.168.0.100, I need to be OUTSIDE that range, ie 192.168.0.254. Understood. Where I got messed up was :

a) I had I assumed the default AP address was OUTSIDE that range . isn’t 192.168.1.1 outside the 192.168.0.XXX range??
b) I was getting mixed messages (in my brain) as I had also read that everything in your LAN needs to be INSIDE the IP range ( ie SAME range) that is established by your main router's. So that to me suggested between 1 and 100 … and not 254! Add to that the confusion that the AP router kept on asking me for a 192.168.1.0 to 192.168.1.100​

Anyway, I'm thankful to this forum for keeping up woth me until it got it! Thank you!

About the router - I see now why consumerd are so quick to badmouth some routers as crap. Actually for this router, which as the one I picked up for $20 at Best Buy, I thought quite the opposite, notwithstanding a terrible day. It was packed well, excellent documentation, well supported, nice quality, easy interface, and even suprising good range. Have the router now in a bac kbedroom upstaisr an dit still reports excellent strengh on the main floor office on the other side of the house. I doubt it will work everywhere,,,but thats why I bought a few! Anyway I could have easily trashed Trendnet as a piece of crap - but in fact, todays events had nothing to with the router.

 

[thiggins]

In order to get any benefit from SuperG, the client needs to support it. Only products using Atheros SuperG chipsets do that. The Intel adapter doesn't. It doesn't matter what you set the router to (although I suggest you just disable it). The max connect rate you'll get is 54 Mbps.

SSID broadcast isn't really an effective security measure, especially when people don't change their SSID from factory default. Enable it or not, but be sure to change the router password and SSID.

Router channel should be set to 1, 6 or 11. See this page for the reason. If everyone else is on 6, choose 1 or 11.

Class C subnets, which is what you deal with in small networks must have the first three groups of digits set the same, in your case 192.168.0. 192.168.1.X is not outside the DHCP range of your main router's subnet, it is in a different subnet. Two very different things.
A Class C subnet runs from 0 to 255, but 0 and 255 are reserved. So the usable values of "X" for 192.168.0.X are 1 to 254.

 

[Mediaman]

Understood re IP address (finally), SSIs and channels. Many thanks again.

Re NIC, even if there were such a beast as mini-PCi card, based on a Atheros SuperG chipset, to replace the 2220 to acheive a rated 108Mbps, that would only make sense if I indeed had the need for that speed re WLAN applications (which I currently do not), or for WAN applications (which I currently do not given a max 7Mbps service).

Would rather put the money in replacing my relic FVS318 router, which your router charts showed to be limiting at 7Mbps. As an aside, does that limitation still apply even if I do not use the VPNs feature of that router (admin setup shows those setting as blank) , or is it simply an inherent limitation of the router?.

 

[thiggins]

The speeds shown in the Router Charts are straight routing speed, i.e. no VPN.