Enterprise Wireless Routers?

[ynohtna]

I was wondering why there's little focus on this site for enterprise? I thought they would be the fastest most reliable blah blah... is that not the case?

Just wondering before I go out to buy a wndr3700

 

[thiggins]

We occasionally review enterprise-grade products. But in wireless, the market has largely gone to centrally managed systems with "light" APs, which are beyond our capability to properly test.

"Enterprise" APs are generally built with the same chipsets you find in consumer products, but have a few more "knobs" you can tweak. Most have to do with management, not performance. And prices tend to be significantly higher than consumer-grade gear.

Look at the D-Link DAP-2553 for an example of a biz-class AP.

 

[stevech]

D-Link, Business Class? Not. High end residential, low end SOHO.

Enterprise WiFi... dominated by
Cisco
Aruba
Trapeze
Tropos

 

[tipstir]

D-Link, Business Class? Not. High end residential, low end SOHO.

Enterprise WiFi... dominated by
Cisco
Aruba
Trapeze
Tropos

Don't forget Nortel, Tyco, Sitcom, EnGenius

 

[ynohtna]

thanks for the replies... If it's just better software typically then DD-WRT probably negates this no?

 

[occamsrazor]

Ubiquiti have some pretty cool-looking high-power/long-range gear....

 

[stevech]

thanks for the replies... If it's just better software typically then DD-WRT probably negates this no?

No, I wouldn't put DD-WRT in the good SOHO, nor enterprise product class.

 

[Aluminum]

Real enterprise should avoid wireless on the intranet like the plague anyways, only as a last resort. They can justify/afford/write off running wires in so many cases that no one else could.

Theres still plenty of "enterprise wireless" stuff on the market for those that get suckered in, and almost none of the differences or extra bits are geared towards the "small net" buyers.

BTW, I'm not speaking of WISP/backhaul oriented equipment, much of which blends over very well. Thats where you will find faster and more reliable if you look in the right places and open your wallet wider.

 

[tipstir]

thanks for the replies... If it's just better software typically then DD-WRT probably negates this no?

Remember DD-WRT and Tomato third-party firmware is just a tweak of the current hardware settings. It doesn't change the hardware in anyway. Just enable disabled setting that are what stock firmware does. So the hardware can do certain things that the stock firmware disables. DD-WRT doesn't play nice with 802.11n though better for 802.11g.

 

[occamsrazor]

Remember DD-WRT and Tomato third-party firmware is just a tweak of the current hardware settings. It doesn't change the hardware in anyway. Just enable disabled setting that are what stock firmware does. So the hardware can do certain things that the stock firmware disables. DD-WRT doesn't play nice with 802.11n though better for 802.11g.

With respect I think that is a bit of an oversimplification, like saying Linux or Windows or Mac are just a "tweak" of a desktop computer's hardware because the hardware remains the same.... Yes, of course the hardware remains the same whatever firmware you use, so choosing the hardware is still very relevant, particularly with regard to the wireless aspect and processor. But a router these days is essentially a mini-computer, so the firmware you run on the router is highly important also, and good firmware (especially 3rd party such as DD-WRT & Tomato) provides features well beyond the scope of most routers' standard firmware.

Real Enterprise gear of course still has its place, but projects such as the two mentioned above make much "enterprise class" functionality available, at minimal hardware expense, to the average person at home, if that's what they are looking for.

Personally I'm a big fan of Tomato firmware, but DD-WRT has benefits in other ways. I'd never go back to the generally crappy stock firmware that is installed on most consumer routers....

 

[tipstir]

With respect I think that is a bit of an oversimplification, like saying Linux or Windows or Mac are just a "tweak" of a desktop computer's hardware because the hardware remains the same.... Yes, of course the hardware remains the same whatever firmware you use, so choosing the hardware is still very relevant, particularly with regard to the wireless aspect and processor. But a router these days is essentially a mini-computer, so the firmware you run on the router is highly important also, and good firmware (especially 3rd party such as DD-WRT & Tomato) provides features well beyond the scope of most routers' standard firmware.

Real Enterprise gear of course still has its place, but projects such as the two mentioned above make much "enterprise class" functionality available, at minimal hardware expense, to the average person at home, if that's what they are looking for.

Personally I'm a big fan of Tomato firmware, but DD-WRT has benefits in other ways. I'd never go back to the generally crappy stock firmware that is installed on most consumer routers....

I've used it for 5 years. Sure your seem happy using DD-WRT it has a lot of features. Open-WRT more geared for the Linux folks. Tomato I never cared for that firmware.

 

[joeybaker]

Okay, yes, I'm biased. I work for one of "those companies" that makes enterprise wifi gear. I'm also not an engineer so I can't really speak to the technical side of things too much. But, of course, I feel a bit obligated to defend the higher-end stuff.

What I can say: the hardware used at the enterprise level are similar, but not the same as consumer grade. Things like faster CPUs, more memory, and so forth, make a difference. I've used Buffalo, Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, and probably a few other consumer-end routers –*nothing wrong with them, but they do usually need a restart once a month – the pipes just get clogged up and need to be cleaned.

Enterprise hardware isn't foolproof, but it is smarter about that kind of thing. Of course goodies like RADIUS compatibility, ways to secure the AP in public places, and scalability are important too.

 

[Osamede]

Real enterprise should avoid wireless on the intranet like the plague anyways, only as a last resort. They can justify/afford/write off running wires in so many cases that no one else could..

"Real enterprise" these days means you may not have a desk even to sit down plug and a wire plug. That's the reality. Not is it really practical to have 8 wires running across a team meeting room table.

Just the reality these days. Enterprise wireless is marginally better but, ss someone above said, their hardware is just marginally better in most cases.

The price premium paid for enterprise is more for having proper support and warranty than anything else. In consumer stuff that element has been cut to the bone if not discarded entirely. They flog the stuff at low margins and they dont care. If the equipment conks out after 90 days that is all the better, to get the punters back in buying the next needless "upgrade".

 

[stevech]

Real enterprise should avoid wireless on the intranet like the plague anyways, only as a last resort. They can justify/afford/write off running wires in so many cases that no one else could.

True - for security reasons. I know of a company that doesn't want WiFi in their buildings for fear that some dolt from the media will sit in the parking lot, pick up an SSID, maybe catch a DHCP cycle, and go write a full-of-lies news article about cracking company X's WiFi and compromising the Pentagon or Wall Street.

But most serious Enterprise WiFi I've worked with is pretty bullet-proof: VLANed off where WiFi hackers simply cannot get to the host computers and only the Internet, strong passwords changed daily for guests, and so on. Employee access to the servers via WiFi uses the approved AAA server - same one that employees use for remote access via the Internet. Plus VPN for really sensitive financial/HR data, and etc.

Here's one on WiFi: In some few countries, if a person gets on your WiFi and accesses Porn or does criminal things, YOU are responsible and can be charged as a co-defendant.

 

[ynohtna]

wow and I thought enterprise would be better range, reliability, robustness...

Interesting about dd-wrt comment not being good for N network, especially 5ghz, I use that band. I guess I better steer clear of it, I still have my dhcp, routing going through my wrt54GL because of all the port configurations I didn't want to redo... and non confidence in my 610N to be reliable.

I ended up buying a wndr3700.... decent price at 129$ CAD. Maybe my 610N will be simply relegated to my G only network replacing my wrt54gl

 

[tipstir]

wow and I thought enterprise would be better range, reliability, robustness...

Interesting about dd-wrt comment not being good for N network, especially 5ghz, I use that band. I guess I better steer clear of it, I still have my dhcp, routing going through my wrt54GL because of all the port configurations I didn't want to redo... and non confidence in my 610N to be reliable.

I ended up buying a wndr3700.... decent price at 129$ CAD. Maybe my 610N will be simply relegated to my G only network replacing my wrt54gl

How old is that G router? Getting 802.11n router to run only G might be flaky as it was designed more for 802.11n than 802.11g. But then again you might be happy with 610n performance? I have decided split the network into 4 groups starting off from the router. Each number is the port being used.

Group #1 1000mbps - 8-port switch (for all 1000mbps wired clients)
Group #2 100mbps - 16-port switch (for all 100mbps wired clients)
Group #3 801.11N - Belkin N+ in AP (802.11N mode wireless clients only)
Group #4 802.11G - Belkin N+ in AP (802.11G mode wireless clients only)

The gear I have listed under my sign will have to do as maybe one day the ideal router will come along beating the second best on the SNB Router Charts. The ESR-9850 Gig N Router and both Belkin N+ Gig in AP mode each for 802.11n and 802.11g is it for me.

 

[ynohtna]

Hmm didn't want to go too far off topic but oh well.

I don't have an elaborate setup.... I just like pimp stuff

I need to reconfig things, I have a ready nas NV+, read nas pro pioneer, and planning on a 6 core machine running VMs.

Right now everything is on the same floor (basically my living room) I'm looking to move a bunch of stuff into the garage (floor directly below).

internet access is DSL in one port in living room.

No possibility to get an ethernet cable from living room to garage, so I'm going to use Netgear 200mbps powerline adapters to go from router in living room to a gigagbit switch in the garage with the NAS's and server.

In living room I will have my HTPC connected by ethernet to the router.

I have one laptop with 5ghz N, one laptop with 2.4 ghz N, phones, webcam and a wii that connect with 802.11g. Also have a Multi function printer and colour laser I need to connect to the network (haven't decided if I wanted to stash these in the garage too)

Right now my wrt54gl is the gateway to the internet and dhcp... I never transferred everything to the 610N because it didn't seem stable unless I could keep it cool and it didn't have dd-wrt at the time.

from the router charts I'm guessing using the wndr3700 as the gateway will make a world of difference than wrt54GL... I also want to set up a VPN server.

 

[tipstir]

Hmm didn't want to go too far off topic but oh well.

I don't have an elaborate setup.... I just like pimp stuff

I need to reconfig things, I have a ready nas NV+, read nas pro pioneer, and planning on a 6 core machine running VMs.

Right now everything is on the same floor (basically my living room) I'm looking to move a bunch of stuff into the garage (floor directly below).

internet access is DSL in one port in living room.

No possibility to get an ethernet cable from living room to garage, so I'm going to use Netgear 200mbps powerline adapters to go from router in living room to a gigagbit switch in the garage with the NAS's and server.

In living room I will have my HTPC connected by ethernet to the router.

I have one laptop with 5ghz N, one laptop with 2.4 ghz N, phones, webcam and a wii that connect with 802.11g. Also have a Multi function printer and colour laser I need to connect to the network (haven't decided if I wanted to stash these in the garage too)

Right now my wrt54gl is the gateway to the internet and dhcp... I never transferred everything to the 610N because it didn't seem stable unless I could keep it cool and it didn't have dd-wrt at the time.

from the router charts I'm guessing using the wndr3700 as the gateway will make a world of difference than wrt54GL... I also want to set up a VPN server.

Not bad. So the 610n gets hot like it's brother 310n with DD-WRT on it. Interesting. Hot routers don't make network life fun though. You would have to keep that router cool with a heat sensor fan. You could make one yourself.

 

[ynohtna]

Not bad. So the 610n gets hot like it's brother 310n with DD-WRT on it. Interesting. Hot routers don't make network life fun though. You would have to keep that router cool with a heat sensor fan. You could make one yourself.

I didn't put dd-wrt on 610N was waiting for a final release of v24sp2. Best stability I have for it right now is upside down

 

[Aluminum]

True - for security reasons. I know of a company that doesn't want WiFi in their buildings for fear that some dolt from the media will sit in the parking lot, pick up an SSID, maybe catch a DHCP cycle, and go write a full-of-lies news article about cracking company X's WiFi and compromising the Pentagon or Wall Street.

But most serious Enterprise WiFi I've worked with is pretty bullet-proof: VLANed off where WiFi hackers simply cannot get to the host computers and only the Internet, strong passwords changed daily for guests, and so on. Employee access to the servers via WiFi uses the approved AAA server - same one that employees use for remote access via the Internet. Plus VPN for really sensitive financial/HR data, and etc.

Here's one on WiFi: In some few countries, if a person gets on your WiFi and accesses Porn or does criminal things, YOU are responsible and can be charged as a co-defendant.

What you describe is basically just a self built WWAN with VPN, not a part of the intranet. Likely a lot less range, but (hopefully) more bandwidth.

Like someone else mentioned, its usually all about management features. Not higher reliability, individual unit range or performance.

Find out what a (good) WISP uses in cramped towers that serve a bunch of torrent freaks if you want to go beyond retail units.