HELP! Farmer trying to set-up long-range property WiFi

[NXIL]

I'll never use XXXXlink. I ask people to kindly quit referencing it.

May I ask why you will not consider the Up-there link system? Solar powered, not susceptible to ground based catastrophes, etc.

 

[NXIL]

Also, there aren't people that do this on the regular. This is a very niche-case.

Well, not really (and not trying to be argumentative, just saying that having outdoor security cameras, wireless, solar powered) in this day and age is not umcommon.

Amazon has a "

"Pan Tilt 360°WiFi Camera with Color Night Vision/PIR Sensor/2-Way Audio/Alexa/Google Assistant"--​

for forty bucks.

https://www.amazon.com/VIZIUUY-Security-Wireless-360%C2%B0WiFi-Assistant/dp/B0C5MDJ8YT/?tag=snbforums-20

Hundreds of options:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/photo/14241331/?tag=snbforums-20

Also, there aren't people that do this on the regular. This is a very niche-case.

Maybe not so much here, but I frequently see this type of outdoor security setup discussed on Reddit, a much larger forum (but organized by interest/topic) with a lot of good experience--

Try

https://www.reddit.com/r/homedefense/

The home defense subreddit

Here is someone asking a similar question to yours, an hour ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/homesecurity/comments/1dmwtrw/nvr_offgrid_security_cam_system_to_monitor_from

This was in the Home Security (less guns, more cameras than Home Defense)

https://www.reddit.com/r/homesecurity/

NVR off-grid security cam system (to monitor from within our Cabin) with POE (ethernet/NO Internet) ? (self.homesecurity)

submitted an hour ago by eyeseeitallnow

Seeking off-grid security camera (to monitor from within our Cabin) with POE (ethernet). Do not need or want WiFi but WiFi is OK — as long as there is ALSO Ethernet connectivity!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/comments/r8us6g/got_30_acres_i_want_covered_with_wifi

Woodland outdoor camera system

Hi! I use some Arlo cameras for my home, but now I'm seeking recommendations for options to add cameras to a large plot of vacant woodland (50+ acres) with no electricity (but the potential to add electricity if needed). I cannot visit the site more than once every few months. Looking for the...

community.arlo.com

https://community.ui.com/questions/Advice-needed-for-50-acre-Unifi-deployment-long-range-CCTV/d2015705-9d60-4f49-8222-aabf1720ea82

https://community.ui.com/questions/Outdoor-Wireless-Coverage/1f8482e7-eeae-4a5c-afd1-995bfb7259c1

There are also many businesses who "professional" commercial video systems:

Construction Jobsite Cameras & Solar Surveillance Trailers | WCCTV

Discover the USA's leading supplier of security cameras and mobile surveillance trailers for construction jobsites.

www.wcctv.com

And Farmer, you will need to consider where the video feeds will be stored--local hard drives? "Cloud" service? A combo (having the video sent off site might be better for safety) of local and cloud, might be beneficial.

Best of luck!

 

[Tech9]

Tech9, you haven't heard? You're signed up and you'll be collected for processing a day or two before launch.

I'm ready, flew on the Starship once. I was working on the cables as usual, no one told me they are going to launch it that day. I was surprised, they were surprised. Had to learn how to fly a wingless trash can really quickly. The first time Starship came back in one piece wasn't really unmanned flight.

 

[FarmerFran]

A few points of feedback to all of the previous posts:

• My dislike for Starlink is irrelevant. AT&T Air will work just fine. I already have a massive solar & battery array in the area where this initial unit will be powered. In theory, it could run for approximately 146 days before it would drain out the battery - assuming the solar did not regenerate at all.
• I can't run CAT6E cabling (copper or fiber, regardless) across the property. Topologically, there are huge swings in elevation and a lot of it is rock bed. It's just not feasible. It must be done wirelessly.
• Regarding professionals, I stand by my remark that this is very niche. There's no professionals (not amateurs, like on Reddit + myself) within my county (or neighboring counties) that specialize in WiFi deployment in a woods environment. Most people I've discussed it with in the past struggle to comprehend the use case or the logistical hurdles.
• Don't focus on the cameras folks. I can easily - and cheaply - change out camera systems. Having said that, I don't want anything to do with pan-tilt-tracking style cameras. It will have a fixed FOV.
• Regarding lightning, I was planning on using a PoE-rated lightning arrestor (link) and ground it right to the pole that the Bridge / AP is mounted on.
• Camera footage data will be stored on a Eufy HomeBase Unit which has multiple Terabytes of storage.

With all of that said, my experiment will be as follows:

1. Order (2) CPE210 + (1) EAP2110 + (1) Camera
2. Connect Mobile Device USB-C to Ethernet
3. Connect Ethernet to (1) a PoE injector (along with a power supply), connect the PoE injector to a lightning arrestor, and then connect to the first CPE210.
4. Create a Solar Station @ 255 yards away. Hook up a CPE210 facing North in LOS to the first CPE210. Connect the CPE210 to the EAP2100 facing NE (to feed camera #7 which is within 50 yards LOS).
5. Test the data feed. Also take another mobile device and connect it to the EAP2100 and walk in various directions and distances to see the connection strength and data flow rate.
6. Follow back-up with the forum gurus here and plan next steps.

Please chime in on this Design of Experiments and I'll go from there!

The reason I mentioned the WAVLINK unit previously was because I could use (4) Yagi +18 dBi external antennas. I'm not sure if that's going to have better / worse performance than (2) CPE210s facing each other, but that was the thought.

 

[Tech9]

Order (2) CPE210 + (1) EAP2110 + (1) Camera

2x CPE210 + 1x EAP110-Outdoor + Camera

2.4GHz 300Mbps 9dBi Outdoor CPE

2.4GHz 300Mbps 9dBi Outdoor CPE

www.tp-link.com

300Mbps Wireless N Outdoor Access Point

300 Mbps Wireless Indoor/Outdoor Access Point, specially designed weatherproof enclosure for outdoor environment.

www.tp-link.com

Something else you need to know - CPE210 is EoL product like most 2.4GHz band bridges today. Unfortunately, this is what you need for your application. It will give you more chances of success. There is a newer CPE510 bridge with 13dBi antennas on 5GHz band. You may want to test this one instead?

5GHz 300Mbps 13dBi Outdoor CPE

5GHz 300Mbps 13dBi Outdoor CPE

www.tp-link.com

EAP2100 facing NE

EAP110-Outdoor is an omnidirectional AP, you just need to install it there for 360-degree coverage around it.

 

[FarmerFran]

2x CPE210 + 1x EAP110-Outdoor + Camera

2.4GHz 300Mbps 9dBi Outdoor CPE

2.4GHz 300Mbps 9dBi Outdoor CPE

www.tp-link.com

300Mbps Wireless N Outdoor Access Point

300 Mbps Wireless Indoor/Outdoor Access Point, specially designed weatherproof enclosure for outdoor environment.

www.tp-link.com

Something else you need to know - CPE210 is EoL product like most 2.4GHz bridges today. Unfortunately, this is what you need for your application. There is a EAP510 bridge with 13dBi antennas on 5GHz. You may want to test this one instead?

5GHz 300Mbps 13dBi Outdoor CPE

5GHz 300Mbps 13dBi Outdoor CPE

www.tp-link.com

EAP110-Outdoor is an omnidirectional AP, you just need to install it there for 360-degree coverage around it.

Based on the responses thus far, the 5GHz solution wouldn't likely work given that it's higher frequency translates to a shorter wavelength. With that said, the CPE210 is 802.11n, and I believe there were improvements to 2.4GHz spectrum with 802.11ax / WiFi 6. I don't believe any such improvements were made to 2.4G in WiFi 7.

Is it possible that instead of CPE210, I could use a WiFi6 variant (EAP610 - link)? I can't find the antenna strength for it easily (still looking) and if it offers the same / superior performance when doing a EAP610-EAP610 link vs. the CPE210-CPE210. I also see that the EAP610 has built in lightning protection ... something nice that will help me offset some costs of separate lightning arrestors.

Thoughts?

 

[Tech9]

Is it possible that instead of CPE210, I could use a WiFi6 variant (EAP610 - link)?

EAP610-Outdoor is an AP, not a PtP bridge.

I can't find the antenna strength for it easily

EAP610-Outdoor has 5dBi antennas, CPE510 has 13dBi antennas (if we are talking about 5GHz band AP and PtP).

 

[FarmerFran]

@Tech9 - I just need to focus on 2.4GHz on the bridges. I don't believe the 5GHz will work. I am happy to run Dual Band on the APs though.

Any advice on 2.4GHz WiFi6 Bridging that could replicate or improve upon the range of the CPE210?

 

[Tech9]

I'm taking a break from this discussion because if we go for 5GHz PtP bridge options it will continue forever. They are many with different specs and for different applications. Based on initial description - all you need is 2.4GHz N, your cameras perhaps will be 2.4GHz up to N only, you have better chances of success on 2.4GHz band and you have the hardware list to try. All what is left is to try. Get the products from Amazon, if it doesn't work - send them back. As I said your DIY project cannot guarantee any positive results, especially with the new detail "woods environment" above.

 

[FarmerFran]

@Tech9 - I've said repeatedly that I want 2.4GHz bridges. I've never suggested 5GHz for PtP. I'm asking for tips to see if there's a 802.11ax equivalent of the CPE210 (because you noted that it's EOL).

 

[Tech9]

There is 5GHz N300 equivalent, CPE510:

5GHz 300Mbps 13dBi Outdoor CPE

5GHz 300Mbps 13dBi Outdoor CPE

www.tp-link.com

There is 5GHz AC867 also available, CPE710:

5GHz AC 867Mbps 23dBi Outdoor CPE

5GHz AC 867Mbps 23dBi Outdoor CPE

www.tp-link.com

The last one will shoot at miles distance with 23dBi antennas for whoever needs this bridge and speed. You don't because the AP after better be N300 for longer range possible. An AX-class AP won't help much, your clients perhaps won't support AX on 2.4GHz band and it won't increase the range.

I'm out. Trying to help you without going into guessing territory too much. This is all I can assist with remotely in a public forum without even seeing what exactly place we are talking about. Your hand drawn map over satellite image could have helped in the process. Someone else may have other ideas.

 

[Piotrek]

Based on the responses thus far, the 5GHz solution wouldn't likely work given that it's higher frequency translates to a shorter wavelength.

TP-Link

Long Range Wireless with Pharos

www.tp-link.com

 

[FarmerFran]

There is 5GHz N300 equivalent, CPE510:

5GHz 300Mbps 13dBi Outdoor CPE

5GHz 300Mbps 13dBi Outdoor CPE

www.tp-link.com

There is 5GHz AC867 also available, CPE710:

5GHz AC 867Mbps 23dBi Outdoor CPE

5GHz AC 867Mbps 23dBi Outdoor CPE

www.tp-link.com

The last one will shoot at miles distance with 23dBi antennas for whoever needs this bridge and speed. You don't because the AP after better be N300 for longer range possible. An AX-class AP won't help much, your clients perhaps won't support AX on 2.4GHz band and it won't increase the range.

I'm out. Trying to help you without going into guessing territory too much. This is all I can assist with remotely in a public forum without even seeing what exactly place we are talking about. Your hand drawn map over satellite image could have helped in the process. Someone else may have other ideas.

@Tech9 - You keep bringing 5GHz in. Why? I don't want anything to do with it.

I'm just trying address that if you're saying the CPE210 is EOL, what should I replace it with - knowing that 2.4GHz is the law of the land? I was asking about AX given the performance benefits of AX to the 2.4G spectrum. The security cameras that I'm using leverage 11n; however, mobile devices and laptops are all WiFi 6/6E enabled now.

 

[sfx2000]

This is not an easy project, especially given that you want camera streaming, which can eat up bandwidth. It's also outdoors, which requires equipment that can withstand temperature changes and is water resistant.

Yes, I agree - this might be better handled by a local WLAN Professional because of the scope and scale.

Going DYI - it can be done, but it might actually be more expensive and less suited to OP's needs...

 

[FarmerFran]

Yes, I agree - this might be better handled by a local WLAN Professional because of the scope and scale.

Going DYI - it can be done, but it might actually be more expensive and less suited to OP's needs...

I'm a tinkerer ... and a fan of Amazon's return policy in case I can't get things to work.

 

[sfx2000]

I'm a tinkerer ... and a fan of Amazon's return policy in case I can't get things to work.

Understood - for smaller scale projects, that would be ok...

Well that's one of those things - I could choose to reshingle my roof, but there, I have no experience...

Also consider that I used to do home installs, and there, I did make use of a cable TV installer, as that is what his expertise was - he could pull and install Coax and Ethernet drops a hell of a lot faster than I could...

 

[FarmerFran]

Understood - for smaller scale projects, that would be ok...

Well that's one of those things - I could choose to reshingle my roof, but there, I have no experience...

Also consider that I used to do home installs, and there, I did make use of a cable TV installer, as that is what his expertise was - he could pull and install Coax and Ethernet drops a hell of a lot faster than I could...

If there was a local option for me to call way out in the middle of nowhere, I'd call them. But there isn't.

Therefore, I don't have a choice but to figure it out. Hopefully with some help, I'll be successful.

 

[Tech Junky]

I'm a tinkerer ... and a fan of Amazon's return policy in case I can't get things to work.

Beware this might become an issue.... I had an experience with them starting to deduct 10-20% on returns and one instance where they refused to budge on a drive I returned. I ordered 4 and returned 4 but they refunded 3. Went back and forth for a few months and finally got fed up with them and did a CC chargeback instead and then removed all of my payment options when they threatened to charge another method of payment.

 

[FarmerFran]

Beware this might become an issue.... I had an experience with them starting to deduct 10-20% on returns and one instance where they refused to budge on a drive I returned. I ordered 4 and returned 4 but they refunded 3. Went back and forth for a few months and finally got fed up with them and did a CC chargeback instead and then removed all of my payment options when they threatened to charge another method of payment.

It's very unlikely that I'll return a ton of stuff. I'm more focused on the technical solution.

 

[FarmerFran]

Okay folks - I've been doing a ton of research on this - and I think one of my key bottlenecks is that my UL speed is ~10Mbps. That's a bit of an issue when you're trying to support 2Mbps x 11 cameras @ 2~3 Mbps each.

Now I know what you're thinking - Are you going to have all 11 live streaming at once? Not 11, but probably 8.

Now, I might be a small-time pizza lawyer, but I read that multiplexing and TDMA (whatever the hell those two things mean) can help resolve my problem. I have no idea how this works. I did read that if I go from Modem (AT&T Air) => Ethernet Switch (Hardline, PoE) => that I can run each port of the Ethernet Switch with the assumption that they'll give 10Mbps each and that it's not straightforward division.

Now, let's look at that for a moment. Let's say I take one of those 10Mbps ports and hook-up a WiFi bridge, send it 300 yards away @ 2.4/5G, receive it, then connect the receiving bridge to an AP. In theory, a lossless system would still have 10Mbps. I'm not sure how to factor-in / calculate losses like this, but nonetheless, the fraction of the 10Mbps that's left over would be able to support 3-4 cameras of split bandwidth).

1. Can anyone tell me if I'm on the right trail or if I'm out to lunch?

• If it works, then in theory, I'd run multiple parallel bridges off of the router and beam things as I need.

Otherwise, the only other options I read seemed absolutely insane:

1. RJ45 in from Modem (AT&T Air) => 12-Port Ethernet Switch (non-PoE) => Fibre out (multiple threads to each one of my destinations) => Media Converter => PoE Injector => RJ45 to cameras or
2. RJ45 in from Modem (AT&T Air) => 12-Port Ethernet Switch (non-PoE) => Fibre out (multiple threads to each one of my destinations) => Media Converter => PoE Injector => Wireless AP (via PoE) => WiFi to Cameras

Either one of those options would be ludicrously expensive.

Thoughts?