New RT-AX86U - Strange Behavior - Questions

[SAL9K]

Oh my, I'm just now reading that the Apple Homepod Mini only has 802.11n, yikes for a 2020 product. You may be better served putting those on the 2.4G network (for the range improvement), and tinkering/enabling the Professional->"Universal Beamforming". Most rail against the universal beamforming, but it improved the connections to my (very) old Logitech Squeezebox Radio's (by a few dB, but that may be all you need), albeit those are 802.11g(!).

 

[seadragon]

Oh my, I'm just now reading that the Apple Homepod Mini only has 802.11n, yikes for a 2020 product. You may be better served putting those on the 2.4G network (for the range improvement), and tinkering/enabling the Professional->"Universal Beamforming". Most rail against the universal beamforming, but it improved the connections to my (very) old Logitech Squeezebox Radio's (by a few dB, but that may be all you need), albeit those are 802.11g(!).

Thanks, I've tried with both beamforming on and off but unfortunately didn't make a difference.

 

[OzarkEdge]

Those are definitely details to consider. I will ponder and integrate this new insight. Thanks!

OE

OK, I've pondered this...

Auto Channel Selection Dameon (ACSD)
Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS)

Control Channel
Auto - router ACSD/DFS automatically varies router control channel and bandwidth for its radio space.
fixed - user fixes router control channel, subject to DFS when using 160MHz bandwidth.

Client must support control channel.

Channel Bandwidth
20/40/80/160 (auto) - router ACSD/DFS automatically varies router bandwidth for its radio space.
fixed - user fixes router bandwidth, subject to DFS when using 160MHz bandwidth.

Client should connect at its best bandwidth permitted, subject to router bandwidth and client support for extension channel(s).

General Usage (WiFi6 US)
2.4 fixed (ch 1/6/11; 20MHz bw)*
2.4 auto (ch Auto; 20MHz bw)

5.0 fixed with half DFS (ch 36-48; 160MHz bw)
5.0 fixed with no DFS (ch 36-48/149-161; 80MHz bw)*
5.0 auto with half DFS (ch Auto, excluding DFS control channels; 20/40/80/160MHz bw)
5.0 auto with no DFS (ch Auto, excluding DFS control channels; 20/40/80MHz bw)

Start with fixed... if WiFi/other interference persists/won't move off, try auto.
Start with half DFS... if radar/DFS interference persists, switch to no DFS.

* Denotes my fixed and no DFS usage:

Alternatively, my auto and no DFS usage might look like this:

OE

 

[ColinTaylor]

IIRC that would be:

Control Channel
Auto - router ACSD/DFS automatically varies router control channel and bandwidth for its radio space.
fixed - user fixes router control channel, subject to DFS when using 160MHz bandwidth.

Control Channel
Auto - router ACSD/DFS automatically varies router control channel and bandwidth for its radio space.
fixed - user fixes router control channel, subject to DFS when using 160MHz bandwidth.

Channel Bandwidth
20/40/80/160 (auto) - router ACSD/DFS automatically varies router bandwidth for its radio space.
fixed - user fixes router bandwidth, subject to DFS when using 160MHz bandwidth.

Channel Bandwidth
20/40/80/160 (auto) - router ACSD/DFS automatically varies router bandwidth for its radio space.
fixed - user fixes router bandwidth, subject to DFS when using 160MHz bandwidth.

Sorry, I realise this wasn't clear in my previous post.

 

[OzarkEdge]

Sorry, I realise this wasn't clear in my previous post.

No problem, I'll think it through, thanks!

OE

 

[ColinTaylor]

No problem, I'll think it through, thanks!

OE

It's hard to put into words. I think it's best to think about DFS as a separate thing as it normally only affects channel changes (I guess it may be forced to lower the bandwidth if there was no other way to keep the radio active - not sure about that). ACSD may change channels or bandwidth or both as part of its normal operation (depending on the user settings).

 

[SAL9K]

Thanks, I've tried with both beamforming on and off but unfortunately didn't make a difference.

Did you connect the Homepod Mini's to the 2.4GHz network? If so, when connected what are the RSSI's (on both the Mini, and the Asus router)?

Also, have you updated the AX86U f/w to the latest stock version 3.0.0.4.386_46061? I've been using this version since Jan, and it's been rock solid for me with all devices on both bands 2.4G/5G, Apple and anything else. I've since started using the firmware defaults, w/ 160MHz disabled.

One other thing to consider, is that if you used the same SSID's and passwords as your previous Airport Extreme, then perhaps it's worth trying the "forget this network" on one of the problematic Apple devices, and re-adding the SSID/WLAN connection. I can imagine weird bits carrying over from the old Airport connection that are interfering with the Asus. I vaguely recall having WiFi issues to an older Asus router from an iPhone 6 after an iOS update as well, that required a forget this network and re-add.

 

[seadragon]

Did you connect the Homepod Mini's to the 2.4GHz network? If so, when connected what are the RSSI's (on both the Mini, and the Asus router)?

Also, have you updated the AX86U f/w to the latest stock version 3.0.0.4.386_46061? I've been using this version since Jan, and it's been rock solid for me with all devices on both bands 2.4G/5G, Apple and anything else. I've since started using the firmware defaults, w/ 160MHz disabled.

One other thing to consider, is that if you used the same SSID's and passwords as your previous Airport Extreme, then perhaps it's worth trying the "forget this network" on one of the problematic Apple devices, and re-adding the SSID/WLAN connection. I can imagine weird bits carrying over from the old Airport connection that are interfering with the Asus. I vaguely recall having WiFi issues to an older Asus router from an iPhone 6 after an iOS update as well, that required a forget this network and re-add.

Thanks. I haven't tried putting them on the 2.4 GHz network yet as I know things like my microwave oven used to interfere with devices back when I used to have stuff on that frequency. Right now, the only device on the 2.4 GHz band is my Harmony remote hub.

I'm using new SSIDs for this router instead of reusing the same from the old Airport Extreme. I’m also on the latest firmware and when I run the firmware check it says it’s the latest.

Yesterday morning, I decided to fully reset the router and set it up again from scratch. The only settings I changed/entered are:

- separate 2.4 and 5 GHz networks with unique SSIDs and password (alphanumeric with no spaces or special characters)
- turned off Roaming Assistant for both networks
- manually set the channels to 11 for 2.4 GHz and 149 for 5 GHz
- set Channel Bandwidth to 20 for the 2.4 GHz network
- set Channel Bandwidth to 20/40/80 and unchecked "Enable 160 MHz" for the 5 GHz network

All other settings are the router defaults.

I've observed that the occasional HomePod still goes offline but then seems to come back online within a few minutes. I'm starting to think it's maybe when the DHCP lease expires (its set to the default 24 hours), although I haven’t established that. Other than that, it's been running smoothly since I did the reset yesterday morning. We'll see how things go.

Thanks again for your help everyone. I'm learning a lot about routers!

 

[degrub]

Thanks. I haven't tried putting them on the 2.4 GHz network yet as I know things like my microwave oven used to interfere with devices back when I used to have stuff on that frequency. Right now, the only device on the 2.4 GHz band is my Harmony remote hub.

I'm using new SSIDs for this router instead of reusing the same from the old Airport Extreme.

Yesterday morning, I decided to fully reset the router and set it up again from scratch. The only settings I changed/entered are:

- separate 2.4 and 5 GHz networks with unique SSIDs and password (alphanumeric with no spaces or special characters)
- turned off Roaming Assistant for both networks
- manually set the channels to 11 for 2.4 GHz and 149 for 5 GHz
- set Channel Bandwidth to 20 for the 2.4 GHz network
- set Channel Bandwidth to 20/40/80 and unchecked "Enable 160 MHz" for the 5 GHz network

All other settings are the router defaults.

I've observed that the occasional HomePod still goes offline but then seems to come back online within a few minutes. I'm starting to think it's when the DHCP lease expires (its set to the default 24 hours). Other than that, it's been running smoothly since I did the reset yesterday morning. We'll see how things go.

Thanks again for your help everyone. I'm learning a lot about routers!

If you are getting interference on the 2.4 GHz band from your microwave, that can mean the door seals are failing.
Hopefully, you or someone else does not have a pacemaker in use while it is running !
Otherwise, modern microwaves should not be leaking much signal.

 

[seadragon]

If you are getting interference on the 2.4 GHz band from your microwave, that can mean the door seals are failing.
Hopefully, you or someone else does not have a pacemaker in use while it is running !
Otherwise, modern microwaves should not be leaking much signal.

I should clarify that this was a few years ago and a different microwave oven. I haven't used 2.4 GHz for anything (other than the Harmony Hub) since then. I guess I should give it another try.

 

[SAL9K]

If you originally updated the firmware without doing a full factory reset, then gremlins are to be expected. Hopefully the AX86U works out for you, it's been the best router I've ever owned, fast and stable.

 

[Dan-in-VA]

Hi everyone,

I’m a long time owner of an Apple AirPort Extreme and have a house full of mostly Apple devices. I just replaced my Airport Extreme with the ASUS RT-AX86U router. It’s basically setup with all default settings however I did separate my 2.4 and 5 GHz bands with different SSIDs.

I’m hoping to get some help with some strange and frustrating behavior I’ve been encountering. The main issue is that our Apple devices seem to randomly disconnect from wifi and prompt on-screen with “Incorrect Password”. Entering the password again just results in the same prompt coming up. The only solution is to reset all network settings on the device and join the network again. Then at a later random time, it will happen all over again.

This is especially frustrating with devices such as the HomePod minis as once they lose their network connection, they must be completely reset in order to gain access to them again.

If I reboot the router, some of these devices will simply not auto-join the network again as they used to with my AirPort Extreme.

I generally have good coverage in my house with the one router. However, I’ve observed that the RSSI number that is reported in the router admin pages is always much lower than the actual that is reported by the devices. For example, my MacBook Pro will show an RSSI of -59 and the router will be reporting -70.

Likewise, a device that is literally 6 feet from the router will report an RSSI of -30 and the router will report it as -45. Is that normal for these routers?

Lastly, I use the wifi network for AirPlay as well and I’ve noticed several 1 second long audio drop outs and clicks and pops since starting to use this ASUS router.

After reading so many great reviews of this router, I’m somewhat disappointed in my experience with it so far.

I’m still within my return period with Best Buy so I’m not going to keep this router if it doesn’t play nicely with Apple devices. But I’d like to try and resolve the issues if I can. I’ve been spoiled for years with the “set it and forget it” nature of the AirPort Extreme which just ran solidly for years.

Thank you in advance for any replies.

Fortunately, I have extensive experience with this exact issue and I have a resolution for you that I’ve confirmed.

Version 3.0.0.4.386.48260 dated 3/25/22 caused me some serious grief. My WiFi devices stopped connecting, iPhones started asking for network keys, etc.

I rebooted, powered everything off, staggered the device power cycling—nothing helped.

I have a mesh network of 4 RT-AC86U devices using Ethernet backhaul connected directly to a FIOS GB optical network terminal.

I downgraded the router and nodes to firmware 3.0.0.4.386_46092 dated 3/3/22, blew away the nodes, saved the router config, reset it to factory, reloaded the config file, and added the nodes back. The only thing I lost was the parental controls time scheduling which apparently wasn’t backed up.

A few weeks later, I tried upgrading the routers and the same thing happened. I downgraded and that fixed things.

I did try Merlin firmware, and it worked, but my USB drive connected to my router stopped working. I believe it’s an SMB incompatibility or lack of support—don’t know. Too bad, because I liked Merlin. I’m waiting to test the next Asus firmware release.

 

[seadragon]

If you originally updated the firmware without doing a full factory reset, then gremlins are to be expected. Hopefully the AX86U works out for you, it's been the best router I've ever owned, fast and stable.

Thanks. The router had the latest firmware on it out of the box. I’m still hoping it will work out since Asus seems to be a highly regarded brand based on all of the reviews I’ve read or watched.

 

[seadragon]

Fortunately, I have extensive experience with this exact issue and I have a resolution for you that I’ve confirmed.

Version 3.0.0.4.386.48260 dated 3/25/22 caused me some serious grief. My WiFi devices stopped connecting, iPhones started asking for network keys, etc.

I rebooted, powered everything off, staggered the device power cycling—nothing helped.

I have a mesh network of 4 RT-AC86U devices using Ethernet backhaul connected directly to a FIOS GB optical network terminal.

I downgraded the router and nodes to firmware 3.0.0.4.386_46092 dated 3/3/22, blew away the nodes, saved the router config, reset it to factory, reloaded the config file, and added the nodes back. The only thing I lost was the parental controls time scheduling which apparently wasn’t backed up.

A few weeks later, I tried upgrading the routers and the same thing happened. I downgraded and that fixed things.

I did try Merlin firmware, and it worked, but my USB drive connected to my router stopped working. I believe it’s an SMB incompatibility or lack of support—don’t know. Too bad, because I liked Merlin. I’m waiting to test the next Asus firmware release.

‘Thank you so much. Sounds like you’ve had very similar issues. I may try the firmware downgrade to see how it goes. Today, things ran fairly well but a couple of HomePod minis still go offline for a bit.

 

[seadragon]

So another update… After reading up on Merlin and how it’s considered more stable than the ASUS firmware, I decided I had nothing to lose by trying it. I flashed my router over to the latest Merlin release which was easy and only took a few minutes. The router has been rock solid since. No devices dropping off, HomePods are behaving well and no audio problems with airplay or any other strangeness.

 

[SAL9K]

Version 3.0.0.4.386.48260 dated 3/25/22 caused me some serious grief. My WiFi devices stopped connecting, iPhones started asking for network keys, etc.

I rebooted, powered everything off, staggered the device power cycling—nothing helped.

I have a mesh network of 4 RT-AC86U devices using Ethernet backhaul connected directly to a FIOS GB optical network terminal.

I downgraded the router and nodes to firmware 3.0.0.4.386_46092 dated 3/3/22, blew away the nodes, saved the router config, reset it to factory, reloaded the config file, and added the nodes back. The only thing I lost was the parental controls time scheduling which apparently wasn’t backed up.

A few weeks later, I tried upgrading the routers and the same thing happened. I downgraded and that fixed things.

I did try Merlin firmware, and it worked, but my USB drive connected to my router stopped working. I believe it’s an SMB incompatibility or lack of support—don’t know. Too bad, because I liked Merlin. I’m waiting to test the next Asus firmware release.

I don't believe it's good practice to reload a setting's file after a factory reset, if that settings file didn't come from that same firmware version. From what I've read, the router needs to be manually configured after a f/w up/down/merlin-grade + full reset (unfortunately).

Also, if you want a stable non-merlin f/w, then try the stock 3.0.0.4.386_46061. I've been running it for 5 months with no issues, and many Apple devices, new and old.

 

[seadragon]

So things have certainly settled down with my router for the last few days. However, I'm noticing very inconsistent wifi speeds with most of my devices (MacBook Pro, iPhone, iPads etc.).

I can do a speed test and get great results and then do another and get poor results. My internet service is 300 down and 20 up. I've verified on the router that it is indeed getting these numbers when I run a speed test in the router admin page.

And here are the speed test results I see with my iPad for example:

These tests were all taken standing about 10 feet in front of the router with nothing in between the device and it.

My wifi scan shows the following (I'm EQUINOX5G):

I've tried changing the channel to the 30s and 40s and also tried the DFS range but it doesn't seem to make any difference. Unfortunately, all my devices are Apple so I'm not sure if this is an Apple issue or my wifi setup. I'm seeing these same results on all of my devices.

Thanks again for your continuing help. I'm learning a lot here.

 

[SAL9K]

Are you using the same Speedtest server for the iPad? For my location, I have about a dozen Speedtest servers to choose from, and only 1-2 of them have stable/consistent results. Also, my laptop speedtests are usually a lot more stable than iPhone, as just "holding it wrong" can skew results (and also the laptop WiFi adapter is much, much better than what's in the iPhone). I also prefer to use https://fast.com/

Also, because your AX86U speed tests look stable, if the merlin build supports iperf3, then perhaps you can eliminate speedtest altogether, and do a network performance test directly from iPad-to-AX86U (or better yet, a macbook).

 

[SAL9K]

I see this post, where @RMerlin indicates that some models have iperf3. I would hope the AX86U does.

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/how-to-speedtest-between-router-pc.77991/#post-752322

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/arc...wto/30388-measuring-network-performance-iperf

 

[seadragon]

Thanks @SAL9K I really appreciate it. Yes, I forgot to mention that I did do a series of speed tests with Ookla using the same target that the router as using and had the same type of results. I don't know much about iPerf but will look into that and read the links you provided.

Thanks again!