New RT-AX86U - Strange Behavior - Questions

[seadragon]

Hi everyone,

I’m a long time owner of an Apple AirPort Extreme and have a house full of mostly Apple devices. I just replaced my Airport Extreme with the ASUS RT-AX86U router. It’s basically setup with all default settings however I did separate my 2.4 and 5 GHz bands with different SSIDs.

I’m hoping to get some help with some strange and frustrating behavior I’ve been encountering. The main issue is that our Apple devices seem to randomly disconnect from wifi and prompt on-screen with “Incorrect Password”. Entering the password again just results in the same prompt coming up. The only solution is to reset all network settings on the device and join the network again. Then at a later random time, it will happen all over again.

This is especially frustrating with devices such as the HomePod minis as once they lose their network connection, they must be completely reset in order to gain access to them again.

If I reboot the router, some of these devices will simply not auto-join the network again as they used to with my AirPort Extreme.

I generally have good coverage in my house with the one router. However, I’ve observed that the RSSI number that is reported in the router admin pages is always much lower than the actual that is reported by the devices. For example, my MacBook Pro will show an RSSI of -59 and the router will be reporting -70.

Likewise, a device that is literally 6 feet from the router will report an RSSI of -30 and the router will report it as -45. Is that normal for these routers?

Lastly, I use the wifi network for AirPlay as well and I’ve noticed several 1 second long audio drop outs and clicks and pops since starting to use this ASUS router.

After reading so many great reviews of this router, I’m somewhat disappointed in my experience with it so far.

I’m still within my return period with Best Buy so I’m not going to keep this router if it doesn’t play nicely with Apple devices. But I’d like to try and resolve the issues if I can. I’ve been spoiled for years with the “set it and forget it” nature of the AirPort Extreme which just ran solidly for years.

Thank you in advance for any replies.

 

[ColinTaylor]

I generally have good coverage in my house with the one router. However, I’ve observed that the RSSI number that is reported in the router admin pages is always much lower than the actual that is reported by the devices. For example, my MacBook Pro will show an RSSI of -59 and the router will be reporting -70.

Likewise, a device that is literally 6 feet from the router will report an RSSI of -30 and the router will report it as -45. Is that normal for these routers?

RSSI is the received signal strength indicator. So the strength of the signal received by the router from the client will be different than that of the client from the router. As the transmission power of client devices is usually much lower than that of the router the RSSI figure shown by the router is typically lower than that shown by the client.

 

[seadragon]

RSSI is the received signal strength indicator. So the strength of the signal received by the router from the client will be different than that of the client from the router. As the transmission power of client devices is usually much lower than that of the router the RSSI figure shown by the router is typically lower than that shown by the client.

Thanks Colin. I misunderstood how RSSI works and that makes sense.

 

[bbunge]

You may want to try the Dual Band SmartConnect. If your 5 GHz is hit by RADAR the clients will switch to the 2.4 GHz band and keep working. I am usually an advocate of using the default settings (other than setting the 2.4 GHz to 20 MHz and turning off WPS). I do have an iPhone, two iPods and a Mac Mini 2014 that work well except for the old iPod touch that does not like WPA2/WPA3-Personal. For that I set up a guest WIFI with just WPA2.
Are you using WPA3?

 

[GHammer]

If it were me, I'd use a single SSID and set each band to a manual channel avoiding the DFS channels.

 

[seadragon]

Thanks for your replies. Here are my current wifi settings for the 5 GHz network:

With these settings, will the router automatically skip the DFS channels?

 

[OzarkEdge]

Thanks for your replies. Here are my current wifi settings for the 5 GHz network:

With these settings, will the router automatically skip the DFS channels?

No, 5.0 (US) 160MHz requires half or all DFS frequencies/channels. See the US FCC 5.0 channel plan in my install notes.

I still don't understand the 20/40/80/160MHz bw setting... I set 80 and my clients connect at their best bandwidth, 20/40/80.

I've got a wireless client that can't see a 5.0 control channel/signal set in the upper DFS range... so I set a fixed (stable), non-DFS (stable) control channel.

My current preference is to only use Auto control channel on an unmanaged network... like most novice home users might use it.

OE

 

[ColinTaylor]

I still don't understand the 20/40/80/160MHz bw setting... I set 80 and my clients connect at their best bandwidth, 20/40/80.

The bandwidth setting really has nothing to do with the client, although it's not obvious from the text. "20/40/80/160" indicates the available bandwidths that can be chosen from by the router using the auto-channel selection daemon. So at startup or after ACSD's periodic scans it will change the bandwidth to the maximum (from that range) it thinks is possible without being impacted by interference from other AP's or noise.

Once the router has set its bandwidth any client can connect at that bandwidth or a lower bandwidth. So if you select say 20/40/80/160 in the GUI but there's co-channel interference the router might choose to operate at 80MHz (the same as if you had selected 80MHz in the GUI). This means that clients can connect at 20, 40 or 80 MHz depending on their capabilities.

 

[OzarkEdge]

The bandwidth setting really has nothing to do with the client, although it's not obvious from the text. "20/40/80/160" indicates the available bandwidths that can be chosen from by the router using the auto-channel selection daemon. So at startup or after ACSD's periodic scans it will change the bandwidth to the maximum (from that range) it thinks is possible without being impacted by interference from other AP's or noise.

Once the router has set its bandwidth any client can connect at that bandwidth or a lower bandwidth. So if you select say 20/40/80/160 in the GUI but there's co-channel interference the router might choose to operate at 80MHz (the same as if you had selected 80MHz in the GUI). This means that clients can connect at 20, 40 or 80 MHz depending on their capabilities.

So then, the net result when setting 20/40/80 (we'll leave 160/DFS out of this) seems to be... the router determines its max operating bandwidth suitable for its radio space within the set max of 80MHz, and then clients connect at their max operating bandwidth within that router max... barring any inherent client deficiencies.

This net result seems to also apply here (in my radio space) when I set a straight 80MHz... I can't recall the last time I set 20/40/80.

Which leaves me with the same, perhaps dense, puzzlement... what's the connectivity difference between setting 20/40/80 vs a straight 80, if the net result is the same?... if setting a straight 80, does the router still use ACSD to determine its max operating bandwidth suitable for its radio space (I would think so)?... if setting a fixed (not Auto) channel, does the router still use ACSD to determine its max operating bandwidth suitable for its radio space (I would think so)?

Sorry to punish you with inquiry about such arcane details! I'd really like to achieve the practical understanding of when to set 20/40/80 and when to set 80. I've been lurking here since 2018, watching to learn this, and it still escapes me.

And Thanks for your consistent and reliable help in this community!

OE

 

[L&LD]

Like most 'auto' settings, they will set up identical, vs. manually, but, the chance to throw away potential performance is high(er).

 

[seadragon]

Starting to lose my mind here. I just had another AirPod mini suddenly drop off wifi and I cannot get it to rejoin. I even did a factory restore on it and when I go to set it up, I get the message "Unable to join the wifi network". The log just shows the following over and over:

Jun  6 14:09:04 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(527): eth7: Auth XX:XX:49:0E:80:36, status: Successful (0), rssi:0
Jun  6 14:09:04 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(556): eth7: Assoc XX:XX:49:0E:80:36, status: Successful (0), rssi:-47
Jun  6 14:09:04 hostapd: eth7: STA XX:XX:49:0e:80:36 IEEE 802.11: associated
Jun  6 14:09:08 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(491): eth7: Deauth_ind XX:XX:49:0E:80:36, status: 0, reason: Deauthenticated because sending station is leaving (or has left) IBSS or ESS (3), rssi:-47
Jun  6 14:09:08 hostapd: eth7: STA XX:XX:49:0e:80:36 IEEE 802.11: disassociated
Jun  6 14:09:08 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(491): eth7: Deauth_ind XX:XX:49:0E:80:36, status: 0, reason: Previous authentication no longer valid (2), rssi:-47
Jun  6 14:09:08 hostapd: eth7: STA XX:XX:49:0e:80:36 IEEE 802.11: disassociated
Jun  6 14:09:16 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(527): eth7: Auth XX:XX49:0E:80:36, status: Successful (0), rssi:0
Jun  6 14:09:16 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(556): eth7: Assoc XX:XX49:0E:80:36, status: Successful (0), rssi:-47
Jun  6 14:09:16 hostapd: eth7: STA XX:XX:49:0e:80:36 IEEE 802.11: associated
Jun  6 14:09:20 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(491): eth7: Deauth_ind XX:XX:49:0E:80:36, status: 0, reason: Deauthenticated because sending station is leaving (or has left) IBSS or ESS (3), rssi:-47
Jun  6 14:09:20 hostapd: eth7: STA XX:XX:49:0e:80:36 IEEE 802.11: disassociated
Jun  6 14:09:20 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(491): eth7: Deauth_ind XX:XX:49:0E:80:36, status: 0, reason: Previous authentication no longer valid (2), rssi:-47
Jun  6 14:09:20 hostapd: eth7: STA XX:XX:49:0e:80:36 IEEE 802.11: disassociated

I have no idea why this is happening. Any thoughts?

 

[OzarkEdge]

Starting to lose my mind here. I just had another AirPod mini suddenly drop off wifi and I cannot get it to rejoin. I even did a factory restore on it and when I go to set it up, I get the message "Unable to join the wifi network". The log just shows the following over and over:

Jun 6 14:09:04 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(527): eth7: Auth XX:XX:49:0E:80:36, status: Successful (0), rssi:0
Jun 6 14:09:04 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(556): eth7: Assoc XX:XX:49:0E:80:36, status: Successful (0), rssi:-47
Jun 6 14:09:04 hostapd: eth7: STA XX:XX:49:0e:80:36 IEEE 802.11: associated
Jun 6 14:09:08 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(491): eth7: Deauth_ind XX:XX:49:0E:80:36, status: 0, reason: Deauthenticated because sending station is leaving (or has left) IBSS or ESS (3), rssi:-47
Jun 6 14:09:08 hostapd: eth7: STA XX:XX:49:0e:80:36 IEEE 802.11: disassociated
Jun 6 14:09:08 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(491): eth7: Deauth_ind XX:XX:49:0E:80:36, status: 0, reason: Previous authentication no longer valid (2), rssi:-47
Jun 6 14:09:08 hostapd: eth7: STA XX:XX49:0e:80:36 IEEE 802.11: disassociated
Jun 6 14:09:16 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(527): eth7: Auth XX:XX49:0E:80:36, status: Successful (0), rssi:0
Jun 6 14:09:16 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(556): eth7: Assoc 5XX:XX49:0E:80:36, status: Successful (0), rssi:-47
Jun 6 14:09:16 hostapd: eth7: STA XX:XX:49:0e:80:36 IEEE 802.11: associated
Jun 6 14:09:20 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(491): eth7: Deauth_ind XX:XX:49:0E:80:36, status: 0, reason: Deauthenticated because sending station is leaving (or has left) IBSS or ESS (3), rssi:-47
Jun 6 14:09:20 hostapd: eth7: STA XX:XX:49:0e:80:36 IEEE 802.11: disassociated
Jun 6 14:09:20 wlceventd: wlceventd_proc_event(491): eth7: Deauth_ind XX:XX:49:0E:80:36, status: 0, reason: Previous authentication no longer valid (2), rssi:-47
Jun 6 14:09:20 hostapd: eth7: STA XX:XX:49:0e:80:36 IEEE 802.11: disassociated

I have no idea why this is happening. Any ideas?

Make your post readable... the default font is sufficient.

Disable 5.0 160MHz and use a fixed, non-DFS control channel.

OE

 

[ColinTaylor]

So then, the net result when setting 20/40/80 (we'll leave 160/DFS out of this) seems to be... the router determines its max operating bandwidth suitable for its radio space within the set max of 80MHz, and then clients connect at their max operating bandwidth within that router max... barring any inherent client deficiencies.

Correct.

Which leaves me with the same, perhaps dense, puzzlement... what's the connectivity difference between setting 20/40/80 vs a straight 80, if the net result is the same?

The difference is that with 20/40/80 the router might subsequently change to 20 or 40 MHz maximum bandwidth (effecting all clients). Remember that noise and interference at the router will be different than that at the various client locations.

... if setting a straight 80, does the router still use ACSD to determine its max operating bandwidth suitable for its radio space (I would think so)?

No, the bandwidth fixed is at 80.

... if setting a fixed (not Auto) channel, does the router still use ACSD to determine its max operating bandwidth suitable for its radio space (I would think so)?

If you set a fixed channel and a fixed bandwidth ACSD does not run at all. It is still susceptible to DFS channel changes forced by radar detection.

 

[OzarkEdge]

Correct.


The difference is that with 20/40/80 the router might subsequently change to 20 or 40 MHz maximum bandwidth (effecting all clients). Remember that noise and interference at the router will be different than that at the various client locations.


No, the bandwidth fixed at 80.


If you set a fixed channel and a fixed bandwidth ACSD does not run at all. It is still susceptible to channel changes forced by DFS.

If the channel is set to Auto or the bandwidth is set to 20/40/80 (or both) then ACSD will be in effect.

Those are definitely details to consider. I will ponder and integrate this new insight. Thanks!

OE

 

[W3Wilkes]

This also sounds like it might be a security issue. Do you have your Authentication set at WPA2/WPA3? If so you might want to try changing it to just WPA2 and see if the clients behave themselves.

 

[SAL9K]

I had a similar disconnect issue to my (ancient) iPhone 6 w/ AX86U. After disabling 160MHz, the problem went away for me (even though the router never seemed to configure itself to 160MHz in my environment). If your router is choosing ch 161, then it's not using 160MHz, and you can verify the b/w chosen in "System Log"->"Wireless Log", E.g. mine shows "noise: -88 dBm Channel: 153/80" for the 5GHz band, control ch 153, b/w 80MHz. Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned previously, under Professional->"Roaming Assistant", is enabled by default, and set to -70dBm, so if your devices are marginal, and you don't have the same SSID on both 2.4G/5G, then your devices are likely being kicked off by the router (which can be a good idea, if for example your device is leaving your home area).

 

[ColinTaylor]

@seadragon FYI: Post log output inside a CODE block for readability:

 

[seadragon]

@seadragon FYI: Post log output inside a CODE block for readability:

View attachment 41627

Thanks and sorry about that. I just edited my post to use the code format.

 

[seadragon]

This also sounds like it might be a security issue. Do you have your Authentication set at WPA2/WPA3? If so you might want to try changing it to just WPA2 and see if the clients behave themselves.

Thanks. My authentication is already set to WPA2 Personal.

 

[seadragon]

I had a similar disconnect issue to my (ancient) iPhone 6 w/ AX86U. After disabling 160MHz, the problem went away for me (even though the router never seemed to configure itself to 160MHz in my environment). If your router is choosing ch 161, then it's not using 160MHz, and you can verify the b/w chosen in "System Log"->"Wireless Log", E.g. mine shows "noise: -88 dBm Channel: 153/80" for the 5GHz band, control ch 153, b/w 80MHz. Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned previously, under Professional->"Roaming Assistant", is enabled by default, and set to -70dBm, so if your devices are marginal, and you don't have the same SSID on both 2.4G/5G, then your devices are likely being kicked off by the router (which can be a good idea, if for example your device is leaving your home area).

Thanks… I turned off Roaming Assistant for both frequencies and have set a manual channel of 153 and also unchecked the 160 MHz option.