[384.18_Alpha Builds] Testing all variants

[MDM]

Well... I already did use manual as a walkaround. But I haven't needed it before. In opinion I should not be forced to since I was not forced to before. Hence the reason why I post here [emoji39]

You don't get it... Manual is the only recommended way, auto usually newer works (correctly) in any router especially when congestion and traffic around you rises; except if you live alone (only WiFi signal) in a wide radius and channel does not matter...

 

[CaptnDanLKW]

I'll second that. Auto is supposed to be smart, and it does what it is supposed to do. The problem is always the 837,498 different types of WiFi devices along with the Tens of Billions of end state configurations based on hardware revision and their software stacks. It's always the client that doesn't do what it's supposed to do when a channel changes.

In my experience and example, my mainstream devices are all happy with Smart Connect and Auto (Still on 384.17) because I live in the middle of nowhere. Channel selection only happens once, at startup. If i do have problems with my 6 ElCheapo Smartlights and they go offline, I'll check the logs and inevitably find an some entries for ACSD which coincide with them going offline. None of my mainstream devices ever have a problem but not to say it couldn't happen.

Sadly fixed channels (and width - NEVER setting 2.4Ghz to 40Mhz) is a unfortunate solution to bad clients.

 

[swejuggalo]

You don't get it... Manual is the only recommended way, auto usually newer works (correctly) in any router especially when congestion and traffic around you rises; except if you live alone (only WiFi signal) in a wide radius and channel does not matter...

So the auto mode that worked with no issues at all with exception of the very first Merlin firmware I installed on my AX88U is suddenly crap and worthless since .16 relese and onward?
And wondering why it changed behavior and hoping for a fix is plain stupid? [emoji848]

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk

 

[MDM]

So the auto mode that worked with no issues at all with exception of the very first Merlin firmware I installed on my AX88U is suddenly crap and worthless since .16 relese and onward?
And wondering why it changed behavior and hoping for a fix is plain stupid? [emoji848]

Like I said (and @CaptnDanLKW), it has nothing to do with FW version or router model or maker, this is a known thing since the start o WiFi. And a log time strong recommendation in this forum (and elsewhere).
It basically worked by accident for you, not the other way around. And maybe it is (probably) that the number of signals have increased around you since then (routers AND clients).

 

[QuikSilver]

So the auto mode that worked with no issues at all with exception of the very first Merlin firmware I installed on my AX88U is suddenly crap and worthless since .16 relese and onward?
And wondering why it changed behavior and hoping for a fix is plain stupid? [emoji848]

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk

Does this help hearing/reading from @RMerlin himself?

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/384-9_alpha-builds-testing-all-variants.54050/page-20#post-461314

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/384-14_alpha-builds-testing-all-variants.59019/page-16#post-524751

 

[CaptnDanLKW]

Like I said (and @CaptnDanLKW), it has nothing to do with FW version or router model or maker, this is a known thing since the start o WiFi. And a log time strong recommendation in this forum (and elsewhere).
It basically worked by accident for you, not the other way around. And maybe it is (probably) that the number of signals have increased around you since then (routers AND clients).

I think we're saying the same thing and I wasn't 100% clear. Auto working (mostly) for me is a result of my low density area. I can see 2 other 2.4Ghz networks ~75dbm and I know they are on 'auto' since they appear in different channels from time to time. I used to have separate SSIDs and fixed channels when I had just a single AC68U. Never had a problem.

Since I've 'upgraded' to 2x AC86Us with AI Mesh and Smart Connect (finally have the signal strength rules values tweaked for my environment) I've increased my coverage and simplified down to one SSID but my IoT devices go flakey with my devices change channels. Going to move to 384.18 when I see the first beta. Smart Connect and fixed channels is one of the most anticipated features I've had in a long time.

 

[kernol]

So the auto mode that worked with no issues at all with exception of the very first Merlin firmware I installed on my AX88U is suddenly crap and worthless since .16 relese and onward?
And wondering why it changed behavior and hoping for a fix is plain stupid? [emoji848]

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk

As far as I can see you have been "unhappy" that the "auto channel" doesn't work as you would expect it to from way back in February [one of your earliest posts]. See here ... https://www.snbforums.com/threads/r...-9-is-now-available.54843/page-10#post-464058

Most folk have learnt that auto is not and has never been, an optimal setting. It "works" but not as well as can be achieved with settings customized manually for your specific location with its levels of radio interference and the fluctuating presence of conflicting signals.

I pick the best channels and frequencies for my location - [plenty of advice and tool suggestions on this forum] - and then hope that my neighbors leave their routers in "auto" mode so they get kicked out of using the BEST channels which I have grabbed for myself. You free to move next door to me anytime .

 

[brummygit]

So the auto mode that worked with no issues at all with exception of the very first Merlin firmware I installed on my AX88U is suddenly crap and worthless since .16 relese and onward?
And wondering why it changed behavior and hoping for a fix is plain stupid? [emoji848]

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk

Contrary to other advice, I don't think you are wrong wonder why features that are included in the firmware suddenly stopped working so rather than calling you stupid and telling you to turn off new features that were deliberately included in the Asus firmware, I will try to explain.

Asus included new Broadcom WiFi drivers in their stock 384_7756 firmware release for the AX88U.

ASUS RT-AX88U Firmware version 3.0.0.4.384.7756
- Enhanced the Wi-Fi 6 performance with Apple® iPhone11, Samsung® S10.
- Supported WPA3
- Supported OFDMA
- Supported 802.11k and 802.11v
- Fixed Let's encrypt register related bugs.
- Fixed connection issues between Android and RT-AX88U IPSec VPN server.
- Improved system stability.

Whilst introducing new WiFi features, the new drivers also introduced some strange behaviour (bugs??) including reports of reduced 2.4Ghz signal strength and in my case (I'm currently running stock 384_9107) very strange behaviour in the 5Ghz networks, auto channel selection, channel width allocations and more with Smart Connect enabled. I also wanted to use it as I already have a mix of many AC devices and a few AX devices which will only increase, but I've resorted to disabling Smart Connect and AX functionality as per the settings in Asus's FAQ on improving connectivity for IoT devices in order to get some stability.

The code from 384_7756 was merged into the Asuswrt_Merlin release 384_16 and therefore I suspect you are seeing the issues I have in the stock firmware. RMerlin can only wait for Asus to release newer firmware to fix these issues and then for the GPL to be made available.

Whilst the standard is theoretically backwards compatible, there can be incompatibilities between older wifi drivers in client devices and Intel etc have issued new releases to solve some of these, it may be that some of your (or mine) client devices will never happily co-exist with 802.11ax and in the end it will come down to either replacing incompatible clients or living with config restrictions on your router, but at the moment I agree from my own experience that the router WiFi implementation itself is buggy.

So I believe you are right that these are issues, and the base functions should work, however they are Asus bugs to fix. Unfortunately the advice until then is as per the other posters, to use manual configuration until Asus fixes it.

 

[MDM]

Third time... Not ASUS issue only, but everybody's!
The thing complicating everything even more (and rendering the AUTO function even more unreliable) is the added OFDMA (that brings no real benefit same as MU-MIMO) but rater breaks things (compatibility with clients etc...), and both are just Gros marketing sellout points and not much more...
So don't expect ASUS (or anyone else) to fix it anytime soon (if ever) because it is near impossible, due to complexity.

Now should they all be sued for not delivering the promised functions with the promised benefits. Probably!
But that is a different issue...

 

[swejuggalo]

As far as I can see you have been "unhappy" that the "auto channel" doesn't work as you would expect it to from way back in February [one of your earliest posts]. See here ... https://www.snbforums.com/threads/r...-9-is-now-available.54843/page-10#post-464058

Most folk have learnt that auto is not and has never been, an optimal setting. It "works" but not as well as can be achieved with settings customized manually for your specific location with its levels of radio interference and the fluctuating presence of conflicting signals.

I pick the best channels and frequencies for my location - [plenty of advice and tool suggestions on this forum] - and then hope that my neighbors leave their routers in "auto" mode so they get kicked out of using the BEST channels which I have grabbed for myself. You free to move next door to me anytime .

It has worked very good for a long time too. Is it so terrible to expect it to continue to work? Almost sounds like I'm basically not allowed to talk about it [emoji39]
Anyway... I'll should just expect it to fail and never work again then. It was nice while it lasted. I have my reasons for using my settings. Optimal or not it has worked well for some time.

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk

 

[brummygit]

Third time... Not ASUS issue only, but everybody's!
The thing complicating everything even more (and rendering the AUTO function even more unreliable) is the added OFDMA (that brings no real benefit same as MU-MIMO) but rater breaks things (compatibility with clients etc...), and both are just Gros marketing sellout points and not much more...
So don't expect ASUS (or anyone else) to fix it anytime soon (if ever) because it is near impossible, due to complexity.

Now should they all be sued for not delivering the promised functions with the promised benefits. Probably!
But that is a different issue...

There are Asus issues in the new WiFi drivers and Smart Connect functionality. It overrides the manual settings for Channel and Bandwidth allocations letting them wander around, reduce the bandwidth on 5Ghz to 20Mhz when set to bother 20/40/80 and also 80, and I have experienced my 5Ghz radio giving up and stopping transmitting a signal entirely. All on stock firmware.

Whilst I agree that when using 2.4Ghz manual channels are best, with 5Ghz having more spectrum available and shorter ranges (particular through buildings) auto should be possible in that band. Using a spectrum analyser, I only have other neighbours within range on channels 36-48 with the others entirely free and available, yet the router and AiMesh clients doesn't manage to remain with stable signals, channels, bandwidth etc. The problems happen even when there is no congestion on the channels [EDIT] and I have used manual channel allocations.

Smart Connect is supposed to manage the handoff of clients between 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz radios and would be very useful and is highly desirable. I was previously using a mesh solution from BT which manages this perfectly, but unfortunately it only supports a limited set of channels on 5Ghz and I needed to get clear of my neighbours. Asus has plenty of work still to do in this area.

 

[MDM]

Exactly what I explained, and what you are experiencing.
You are aware that the AX88U was for all intents and purposes a beta product when it got out (and still is)? Why, because the AX standard itself was not final! So now they are adding the functions they were supposed to be there from the start, and so adding complexity (and bugs).
And the chances for them to all work on auto (or as hoped) are getting slimmer and slimmer...
They will correct the main issues and ad all missing stuff in time, and for me that is when I will go down the AX route, not before.

No it is even much worse for that band: more choice in channels, then the DFS ones (biggest issue), OFDMA, MU-MIMO, Beamforming, WPA3, working for 3 standards N, AC and AX etc. etc.
Practically anything can break it and make it move to a different channel.

Supposed is the keyword here...
And let me guess BT has not yet added all those functions? And for ASUS that is when things started to break more, right?

 

[brummygit]

Since I've 'upgraded' to 2x AC86Us with AI Mesh and Smart Connect (finally have the signal strength rules values tweaked for my environment) I've increased my coverage and simplified down to one SSID but my IoT devices go flakey with my devices change channels. Going to move to 384.18 when I see the first beta. Smart Connect and fixed channels is one of the most anticipated features I've had in a long time.

This is what I've been trying to add to the conversation, whilst in theory automatic channel allocation in areas that have few neighbours should work, I also prefer fixed channels. However you cannot say that automatic channels simply do not work as the majority of routers in homes around the world (and particularly those provided by ISPs) are set to Auto and never touched.

You can set manual channels in the latest stock firmware releases on the AX88U but since the new WiFi drivers they are buggy - with Smart Connect enabled they still vary channels, bandwidth allocations and even stop transmitting entirely and do all sorts of strange things.

So whilst I agree that it's best practice to set manual channels, there are still issues in the newer AX88U firmware which probably contribute to @swejuggalo 's problems which are why he sees a difference from 384_16. They are not anything I think RMerlin can fix, and I won't hold my breath that Asus will fix them quickly, but I'd really like to be back with a mesh which seamlessly hands clients off between bands intelligently.
EDIT: correct reference to original user

 

[MDM]

So whilst I agree that it's best practice to set manual channels, there are still issues in the newer AX88U firmware which probably contribute to @MDM 's problems which are why he sees a difference from 384_16. They are not anything I think RMerlin can fix, and I won't hold my breath that Asus will fix them quickly, but I'd really like to be back with a mesh which seamlessly hands clients off between bands intelligently.

I have no problems, don't have an AX router! Read my signature.
And no, RMerlin has nothing to do with it...

 

[MDM]

This is what I've been trying to add to the conversation, whilst in theory automatic channel allocation in areas that have few neighbours should work, I also prefer fixed channels. However you cannot say that automatic channels simply do not work as the majority of routers in homes around the world (and particularly those provided by ISPs) are set to Auto and never touched.

I service PCs and networks for a living, and most users have problems as not optimal results, disconnections, slow downs etc. And guess what, they are on AUTO!
Only a little number of them is aware or care, and they mostly think it is normal, like it reconnects, or I don't know my speed I just have it, that is fine no?, it is not perfect but it works statement's...
But when I change them just a few settings (turn off auto, MU-MIMO, Beamforming and similar), they are like WOW! I newer knew it could work so good and fast with no hiccups! And I charge them nicely for it!!

 

[dave14305]

Sorry to make an off-topic post in this thread, but Alpha 1 is running fine on my AC68U!

 

[brummygit]

Exactly what I explained, and what you are experiencing.
You are aware that the AX88U was for all intents and purposes a beta product when it got out (and still is)? Why, because the AX standard itself was not final! So now they are adding the functions they were supposed to be there from the start, and so adding complexity (and bugs).
And the chances for them to all work on auto (or as hoped) are getting slimmer and slimmer...
They will correct the main issues and ad all missing stuff in time, and for me that is when I will go down the AX route, not before.

No it is even much worse for that band: more choice in channels, then the DFS ones (biggest issue), OFDMA, MU-MIMO, Beamforming, WPA3, working for 3 standards N, AC and AX etc. etc.
Practically anything can break it and make it move to a different channel.

Supposed is the keyword here...
And let me guess BT has not yet added all those functions? And for ASUS that is when things started to break more, right?

Asus has had the AX88U since 2018 so whilst the standard is evolving they really have had time to fixed fundamental issues. The thing is that they broke a number of things by including newer, buggy WiFi drivers - it's no excuse to say the standard is evolving therefore we don't need to make the basics work.

I have AX turned off on my router (well unless I reboot when it turns itself back on), and I don't have WPA3 enabled, or OFDMA, or Beamforming etc etc. I even use fixed channels (best practice even if auto should work) but Asus still have buggy code currently.

BT - yes they had 802.11k and 802.11v with intelligent client handoff implemented 2 years ago to the AC standards, and I had zero problems except range on my 5Ghz because some of my remote 5Ghz devices are too close to my neighbour, and we were sharing 80Mhz on channels 36-48. Now my Asus can use the free DFS channels in 5Ghz but sadly the code isn't yet stable.

But please don't keep telling posters that it's all their own fault because they won't follow robotically - in some circumstances Auto works fine, and most of the ISP routers in the world working this way. I agree that setting the channels manually is best practice, however the OP noted a change in behaviour which started at 384_16 and he didn't change his channel allocation method so this is most likely explained by the new WiFi drivers for his model in that release.

It is much better (and less confrontational) to offer advice that the change he noticed was most likely caused by Asus changing drivers included in Asuswrt-Merlin 384_16, but that he might be able to work around this using manual channel settings.

My contribution on top of that is that even with manual channels set and all 802.11ax features turned off, if you leave Smart Connect activated it still causes issues with channels, bandwidth allocations and even the 5Ghz radio stopping altogether.

 

[swejuggalo]

There are Asus issues in the new WiFi drivers and Smart Connect functionality. It overrides the manual settings for Channel and Bandwidth allocations letting them wander around, reduce the bandwidth on 5Ghz to 20Mhz when set to bother 20/40/80 and also 80, and I have experienced my 5Ghz radio giving up and stopping transmitting a signal entirely. All on stock firmware.

Whilst I agree that when using 2.4Ghz manual channels are best, with 5Ghz having more spectrum available and shorter ranges (particular through buildings) auto should be possible in that band. Using a spectrum analyser, I only have other neighbours within range on channels 36-48 with the others entirely free and available, yet the router and AiMesh clients doesn't manage to remain with stable signals, channels, bandwidth etc. The problems happen even when there is no congestion on the channels [EDIT] and I have used manual channel allocations.

Smart Connect is supposed to manage the handoff of clients between 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz radios and would be very useful and is highly desirable. I was previously using a mesh solution from BT which manages this perfectly, but unfortunately it only supports a limited set of channels on 5Ghz and I needed to get clear of my neighbours. Asus has plenty of work still to do in this area.

It's me that noticed an issue and has been since . 16.
Appreciate the info and explanations. So basically we need to wait on Asus fixes that was introduced since the .16 merge (in my case on a ax88).
Exactly the type of responses I wanted [emoji3]

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk

 

[brummygit]

I have no problems, don't have an AX router! Read my signature.
And no, RMerlin has nothing to do with it...

Apologies, corrected - my channels were overlapping

 

[brummygit]

It's me that noticed an issue and has been since . 16.
Appreciate the info and explanations. So basically we need to wait on Asus fixes that was introduced since the .16 merge (in my case on a ax88).
Exactly the type of responses I wanted [emoji3]

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk

Yes, apologies got myself confused.

The relevant bit from all the posts above is that the advice to use manual channels is generally considered best practice and usually provides a better experience, but I suspect not the root cause of your issue based on what changed when it started. If you use manual channels be aware that when I had Smart Connect switched on in stock firmware using the same drivers, my channels etc still varied so to truly fix them I turned off that feature and started the wait for Asus to fix it game. So far I've not seen it go wrong afterwards but can't be certain it's now stable.