New RT-AX86U - Strange Behavior - Questions

[seadragon]

@seadragon - The Harmony Hub thing was a red herring. I saw that they had received a firmware upgrade at the end of April and got my hopes up, but not to be.

I'm trying to work out what we have in common regarding our network. Are you running any scripts? AMTM? Have you manually assigned any IPs in the DHCP Server tab?

I haven't tried manually assigning IP addresses yet. But I did unplug the Harmony Hub so it dropped off the network but didn't make any difference.

 

[RimRider]

I haven't tried manually assigning IP addresses yet. But I did unplug the Harmony Hub so it dropped off the network but didn't make any difference.

edit: scrub that.

 

[seadragon]

Any smarthome (Fibaro) or WeMos devices?

No, I don’t have any of those.

 

[RimRider]

No, I don’t have any of those.

Could you check this for me, please?

To satisfy my OCD when looking at various router stats, I had turned off 'randomised MACs' on all of my devices that had this feature, which included multiple iOS devices and multiple Android devices. If I now turn this back on, it seems to have a much better chance at successfully connecting to the network. If I turn it off (set back to using phone's MAC), then it doesn't connect again. Toggle 'randomised' back on and it connects again!

 

[Volt]

@seadragon, I've just looked again on your screenshots with speed test results on page 4 and noticed one strange thing - when your download speed degrades, your upload degrades too. And I cannot image what type of Wi-Fi interference can cause your upload to drop from 20 Mbps to 10 Mbps. I mean that 20 Mbps at best is so low for Wifi 6 that if it were interference or problems with your router, then I'm sure that your upload speeds would not be affected.

Honestly, now I'm pretty sure that your speed issues are caused by your cable modem or Internet provider (maybe you have bad signal levels on your modem that cause these speed fluctuations? or what if your provider throttles your internet?).

 

[seadragon]

Could you check this for me, please?

To satisfy my OCD when looking at various router stats, I had turned off 'randomised MACs' on all of my devices that had this feature, which included multiple iOS devices and multiple Android devices. If I now turn this back on, it seems to have a much better chance at successfully connecting to the network. If I turn it off (set back to using phone's MAC), then it doesn't connect again. Toggle 'randomised' back on and it connects again!

Do you mean Private Wi-Fi Address option in iOS? If so, it's turned on for all my devices (the default setting).

 

[seadragon]

@seadragon, I've just looked again on your screenshots with speed test results on page 4 and noticed one strange thing - when your download speed degrades, your upload degrades too. And I cannot image what type of Wi-Fi interference can cause your upload to drop from 20 Mbps to 10 Mbps. I mean that 20 Mbps at best is so low for Wifi 6 that if it were interference or problems with your router, then I'm sure that your upload speeds would not be affected.

Honestly, now I'm pretty sure that your speed issues are caused by your cable modem or Internet provider (maybe you have bad signal levels on your modem that cause these speed fluctuations? or what if your provider throttles your internet?).

Hmmm... I did replace the cable modem about a month ago (replacing about a 5 year old modem). However, I have verified with my ISP that the signal levels are good at the modem and every time I run a speed test from the router's admin page, it shows full speed. Also, if I connect my devices to the router via ethernet, they all get full speed every time. It's only when using wireless that I see the strange behaviour.

 

[Volt]

Hmmm... I did replace the cable modem about a month ago (replacing about a 5 year old modem). However, I have verified with my ISP that the signal levels are good at the modem and every time I run a speed test from the router's admin page, it shows full speed. Also, if I connect my devices to the router via ethernet, they all get full speed every time. It's only when using wireless that I see the strange behaviour.

Maybe it was just a coincidence that ethernet showed better results.

 

[bbunge]

Hmmm... I did replace the cable modem about a month ago (replacing about a 5 year old modem). However, I have verified with my ISP that the signal levels are good at the modem and every time I run a speed test from the router's admin page, it shows full speed. Also, if I connect my devices to the router via ethernet, they all get full speed every time. It's only when using wireless that I see the strange behaviour.

As you have discovered, wireless can be a problem or at least a perceived problem. Most people who try to make things better by changing WIFI settings in fact make things worse. They also do not understand what goes on between the router or access point and the client.

For 99% of users the best settings are the router default settings. In the case of the AX86U it may be best to go back to the Asus firmware. I recently had some "issues" with Merlin firmware after testing the 386.7 alpha and beta versions. In fact the 5 GHz would not start while set to auto channel. I went back to Asus firmware starting with Version 3.0.0.4.386.45934, Did a hard factory reset after flashing Version 3.0.0.4.386.45934 then had to do a factory reset and initialize from the GUI when the hard factory reset did not clear all the settings. Manual configure then upgrade to Version 3.0.0.4.386.46061. The only changes I made to the WIFI were to set up Guest 1 on 2.4 GHz, enable WPA2/WPA3-Personal and enable auto DFS channel selection (the last two changes were done from the Android app). While I can't test beyong my ISP FIOS 100/100 bandwidth all my connections are working well on all clients from the G IP cam to the AX laptops. Even my new Smart TV is behaving itself since returning to Asus firmware. And yes, I use AiProtect with no issues. Also use DoT to Cloudflare Secure.

 

[seadragon]

As you have discovered, wireless can be a problem or at least a perceived problem. Most people who try to make things better by changing WIFI settings in fact make things worse. They also do not understand what goes on between the router or access point and the client.

For 99% of users the best settings are the router default settings. In the case of the AX86U it may be best to go back to the Asus firmware. I recently had some "issues" with Merlin firmware after testing the 386.7 alpha and beta versions. In fact the 5 GHz would not start while set to auto channel. I went back to Asus firmware starting with Version 3.0.0.4.386.45934, Did a hard factory reset after flashing Version 3.0.0.4.386.45934 then had to do a factory reset and initialize from the GUI when the hard factory reset did not clear all the settings. Manual configure then upgrade to Version 3.0.0.4.386.46061. The only changes I made to the WIFI were to set up Guest 1 on 2.4 GHz, enable WPA2/WPA3-Personal and enable auto DFS channel selection (the last two changes were done from the Android app). While I can't test beyong my ISP FIOS 100/100 bandwidth all my connections are working well on all clients from the G IP cam to the AX laptops. Even my new Smart TV is behaving itself since returning to Asus firmware. And yes, I use AiProtect with no issues. Also use DoT to Cloudflare Secure.

Thanks. I've actually tried resetting the router a couple of times and using just the default settings (both with Asus and Merlin). Still no difference in behaviour for this issue though. I think my next step will be to just try a different router altogether to rule out this one as the issue. The router does seem more stable on Merlin though as I haven't experienced devices dropping off the network as they were on the Asus firmware. I don't think it should be difficult to get 300 Mbps download on any router so I'm hoping this might be a case of a defective one. Who knows, maybe one of the antennas is not working well or something like that. I might even order another ax86u as they are once again on sale.

 

[seadragon]

Maybe it was just a coincidence that ethernet showed better results.

I don't think so to be honest as I've done so may tests that I can't count them now. Every time I use ethernet or do a speed test in the admin page I get full speed performance. I've even had one device connected to ethernet and another wireless and run back to back speed tests. Only the wireless connected devices shows the slower speeds.

 

[seadragon]

So…. About an hour ago, I decided to change the 5GHz channel to 149 for no particular reason. I was using 157 and 161 for most of my testing. I did try the lower channels too but they didn’t make any difference. I also tried auto but I never saw 149 as the channel picked.

Anyway, on channel 149 I’m now getting these results on all my devices after running a few dozen tests. After all of this, could it be that simple? My wi-if scan posted earlier doesn’t show much competition in the 5GHz band.

I‘m quite happy at the moment!

 

[L&LD]

Yes, it is that simple.

Control Channel Setup 2021

 

[degrub]

yes. There is a reason OTA TV always wanted the antenna as high as possible on a house/building - to get direct line of sight and minimal reflections ( which can be good or bad for reception). i had one set of channels in our area that i could only get by pointing the high gain beam towards a tall building. Otherwise the multipath would kill the reception. Antenna inside a house or up against a wall = confusion for the tuner.

No different for an AP and a client in a house - far worse actually. Too much power with many reflections - confusion at the receiver on either end = slow throughput. Find the right frequency, not as bad and it works. Narrow channel width may work better than wide channel for through put.

Remember, the specs are quoted from testing in a faraday cage chamber, not the real world.

 

[seadragon]

Yes, it is that simple.

Control Channel Setup 2021

Just for fun, I set the bandwidth to 20 MHz and my speeds tanked. Set it back to 20/40/80 and the speeds returned to normal. I have 160 MHz and DFS turned off.

 

[RimRider]

So…. About an hour ago, I decided to change the 5GHz channel to 149 for no particular reason. I was using 157 and 161 for most of my testing. I did try the lower channels too but they didn’t make any difference. I also tried auto but I never saw 149 as the channel picked.

Anyway, on channel 149 I’m now getting these results on all my devices after running a few dozen tests. After all of this, could it be that simple? My wi-if scan posted earlier doesn’t show much competition in the 5GHz band.

I‘m quite happy at the moment!

Living in the UK, Band C channels aren't even an option for me... TWO whole months I've been at this - I'm about to give up on ASUS.

 

[iFrogMac]

Hey @seadragon I was reading through this thread, looks like you got your router sorted out? >MacinMan from Macrumors. Hadn't heard from you over there since I had given you the last set of suggestions to try.

 

[seadragon]

Hey @seadragon I was reading through this thread, looks like you got your router sorted out? >MacinMan from Macrumors. Hadn't heard from you over there since I had given you the last set of suggestions to try.

Ahh...... thank you my friend! I was going to update you also on MR but just hadn't gotten there yet. LOL. Thank you also for your help!

 

[seadragon]

Just did another few tests this morning and I'm still getting full speeds. So happy!

I guess what I'm trying to understand now is why channel 149 seems to have made such a difference when my 5GHz wi-fi scan shows that I'm not competing with any other APs. There are others as you can see but their signal strength is very low. Again, my network is EQUINOX and EQUINOX5G. I think my next door neighbour on one side is PCR and Gateway20 on the other side.

 

[iFrogMac]

Ahh...... thank you my friend! I was going to update you also on MR but just hadn't gotten there yet. LOL. Thank you also for your help!

glad you got it fixed. I've gone through the same kind of frustration as you. The airport just works, and (mine still works) but with lack of support, it's probably no longer safe to use anymore as a main router. I like the Asus, but in general before I got the Airport line back in 2007, my experience with third party routers was just a big turn off. They either overheated, or had bad firmware, or no firmware updates after a while. So when Apple discontinued support I wasn't looking forward to picking a third party router again.

I like TP-Link, but they are known for not supporting their routers long term with updates. Asus has been OK so far, NETGEAR, no thank you.

Again though, I'm glad you got the Asus resolved, it seems to be a good router all around.